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Egor
Guest
Quinton sounds like a winner, thanks. Mine is still leaking at the shaft for the compression release, I still need to put the O ring in there. Have fun, Dave
Hi Dave,
When you stop the oil from leaking at the exhaust valve lifter cam [by using an "O" ring], you will create more pressure in the vent tube, because some of the pressure is leaving via the loose fitting on the cover. You will also pump more oil past the valve guides in the process [can be seen in most exhaust pipes]. Didn't mean to ruin you day, just wanted to let you know what to expect next. Your life will so much better if you build a small breather [I called it an oil/air seperator], and before you waste your time and money the Cushman oil vent system won't work [already been there, done that in 2004].
I will do my best to detail the problem, and the best way is to explain how the American vintage Whizzer company solved the problem in 1946, and improved it again in 1950. The original Whizzer "H" motor had a metal plate installed at the rear upper corner of the motor. The plate created an air cavity , because as the rod dasher dipped into the oil and splashed around the motor the plate stopped it from entering the top rear corner. Next the American engineers had the factory drill two holes adjacent to the air cavity, then attached a short breather with a clapper valve. The breather used the lower second hole to allow the oil to drain back into the motor as the motor RPMs were lowered [negative pressure at idle]. In 1950 they increased the oil level in the crankcase from 6 oz. to 8 oz. and increased the height of the breather to compensate. Let now move forward as the motor was copied and made in Taiwan, someone translated the breather system into a bunch of very small passages inside the motor [In High School general science I was told pressure increases with a decrease in size]. It is like running a fire hose into a garden hose and watching the water reach new distances. My favorite example of this logic is evident on the early 1999 model where they ran the oil vent into the air cleaner to see how long it takes before the breather is oil soaked and stops allowing the correct amount of air into the motor. The next fix was to run a series of hoses from the high pressure oil vent on the side of the motor over to the tappet cover, and then later they added more hoses and another fitting to the cover. I guess very little if any testing was done to see if any of these changes helped [they didn't]. When the NE motor was put into production, they blocked off the failed vent system on the side of the motor, and placed a hole directly in line with rod [not sure of the logic used] on the base of the cylinder into the lifter cavity. Over the last several years I supplied the data to them, but was told "no one else" is having any problems with the motor disposing of it's oil supply [if that were true, why did they keep changing the vent system?]. However when the automatic clutch arrived on the scene, and the motors reved higher than before [during clutch engagement], oil started leaving the motor rather quickly. The problem is now classed as a break-in problem, and will go away after the break-in process. I simply got tired of cleaning oil off my tires, rear fender, tail light, belt, and anything else in the path of the breather hose, and applied a little American common sense. Just cause a sudden drop in pressure, and put a mesh in the path to catch some of the oil vapor, and seperate the air and oil in the process. Some type of valve is needed to aid the air venting process, so why not use a PCV valve [why re-invent the wheel]. Make sense? Small vent hose connected to a larger chamber filled with metal mesh, and a PVC valve at the exit point.
Many have made this workable by using parts purchased at most hardware stores. It can be made with a 4" peice of 1" O.D. PVC pipe, some glue, a PCV valve, pot scrubber material, and a couple of plastic ties. If anyone needs pictures as a guide I can supply them.
Have fun,
Quenton
When you stop the oil from leaking at the exhaust valve lifter cam [by using an "O" ring], you will create more pressure in the vent tube, because some of the pressure is leaving via the loose fitting on the cover. You will also pump more oil past the valve guides in the process [can be seen in most exhaust pipes]. Didn't mean to ruin you day, just wanted to let you know what to expect next. Your life will so much better if you build a small breather [I called it an oil/air seperator], and before you waste your time and money the Cushman oil vent system won't work [already been there, done that in 2004].
I will do my best to detail the problem, and the best way is to explain how the American vintage Whizzer company solved the problem in 1946, and improved it again in 1950. The original Whizzer "H" motor had a metal plate installed at the rear upper corner of the motor. The plate created an air cavity , because as the rod dasher dipped into the oil and splashed around the motor the plate stopped it from entering the top rear corner. Next the American engineers had the factory drill two holes adjacent to the air cavity, then attached a short breather with a clapper valve. The breather used the lower second hole to allow the oil to drain back into the motor as the motor RPMs were lowered [negative pressure at idle]. In 1950 they increased the oil level in the crankcase from 6 oz. to 8 oz. and increased the height of the breather to compensate. Let now move forward as the motor was copied and made in Taiwan, someone translated the breather system into a bunch of very small passages inside the motor [In High School general science I was told pressure increases with a decrease in size]. It is like running a fire hose into a garden hose and watching the water reach new distances. My favorite example of this logic is evident on the early 1999 model where they ran the oil vent into the air cleaner to see how long it takes before the breather is oil soaked and stops allowing the correct amount of air into the motor. The next fix was to run a series of hoses from the high pressure oil vent on the side of the motor over to the tappet cover, and then later they added more hoses and another fitting to the cover. I guess very little if any testing was done to see if any of these changes helped [they didn't]. When the NE motor was put into production, they blocked off the failed vent system on the side of the motor, and placed a hole directly in line with rod [not sure of the logic used] on the base of the cylinder into the lifter cavity. Over the last several years I supplied the data to them, but was told "no one else" is having any problems with the motor disposing of it's oil supply [if that were true, why did they keep changing the vent system?]. However when the automatic clutch arrived on the scene, and the motors reved higher than before [during clutch engagement], oil started leaving the motor rather quickly. The problem is now classed as a break-in problem, and will go away after the break-in process. I simply got tired of cleaning oil off my tires, rear fender, tail light, belt, and anything else in the path of the breather hose
Many have made this workable by using parts purchased at most hardware stores. It can be made with a 4" peice of 1" O.D. PVC pipe, some glue, a PCV valve, pot scrubber material, and a couple of plastic ties. If anyone needs pictures as a guide I can supply them.
Have fun,
Quenton
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Egor
Guest
Thanks for the time spent explaining this dilemma. You are correct in your analogy of the problem. I have been restoring the first Honda's produced for America, namely the Honda Cub. It is funny to see what you have just described solved on the little Honda. The first series had a breather that was actually in the output shaft. They were thinking that it would oil the chain. It just built up too much pressure and pushed oil past rings and valve stems, and made a mess in the chain guard. They next designed a convoluted path in an out of the way place to vent the pressure out, but they only had to reinvent the wheel as it were once. Thanks for the info. Ill get er done. Have fun, Dave
PS: I took the bike out for a ride at lunch. There was a set for a movie in our lot, you should have seen them gawking at the bike when I Whizzed by. LOL. I have the baffle holes enlarged so it sounds rather throaty, I have the large header & fiberglass baffle.
PS: I took the bike out for a ride at lunch. There was a set for a movie in our lot, you should have seen them gawking at the bike when I Whizzed by. LOL. I have the baffle holes enlarged so it sounds rather throaty, I have the large header & fiberglass baffle.
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Egor
Guest
got a pic in the famous position. I have been riding the bike to work, it is only 9 mi. each way so it is easy. I checked the oil today and it is almost off the stick, so I need to get that fixed. It was a perfect day for a ride, I ran the bike most of the way at 30mph it is an easy speed I was cruising at near 40 but it vibrates up there, and it is too fast. Have fun, Dave
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Egor
Guest
Took the whizzer over to the Motorcycle show parking lot today in Long Beach. Was riding around looking at the bikes and they wanted to know where to go to get to ride the whizzer's. I got a lot of questions, how fast and what is the mileage? Have fun, Dave
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