72V 3000W Cyclone Electric and Gas Generator Build (SBP kit) - Three Phase Dev

[Pablo]

So it's a regular 115V plug vs. a grounded plug???

 

[bakaneko]

okay, so this is what might be happening. i think... this is a type B plug without the ground (round pin) and two live bladed pins. since there is no ground, maybe the generator just does not like that and does not provide power and there is a ground pin on the generator so the generator itself is not grounded. and, it works with a wall socket because the breaker box is grounded. and, my dremel that i tested is a type A two prong plug where one blade pin is bigger than the other (ground).

however, i do actually get a reading from the charger via the generator of 84V mebe its just shows the voltage and there are actually no amps flowing. if this is the case, i will need to get a charger that has a ground pin.

does that make sense?! why is this so fookin hard LOL

 

[bakaneko]

Okay, sorry for the spam guys, I am so damn close... But, here is what I think is happening with this 72V charger. It is a Japanese/Asian style type A plug with no dedicated live or neutral pins. I think this USA/America generator does not like that and hence will not charge. The charger works in a wall socket where the breaker box can accept this type of Japanese Type A and the charger works plugged in both ways. The generator works with USA style type A plugs (dremel and induction burner) and type B 36V charge (dedicated neutral, ground, and live). Because if it was the charger then it would not work in the wall socket but it does. That is what I think is going on so what the hell am I going to do.

1. Maybe no more international 72V chargers...
2. Luna Cycle has a 72V 300W charger with a type B plug for $100 (but I dont really like that company sorry)
3. Just test the ride characteristics for now with 36V system (recall its batteries are 36V so I can switch quickly between 36 and 72V)
4. 72V power meter wiring is iffy to me. I am not sure if I can do that shunt and signal wires without electrocuting myself or causing a short...
5. 36V has power meter so I can do real Wh/mi difference tests and has a 36V 300W charger (Luna again...)

I dunno so I got to decide what to do. I can just do 36V for now to get it done and look for a 72V charger but no power meter on 72V so I cant do like really detailed tests...

Any insight would help. I think this is what is going on with my pea brain understanding of AC power.

 

[Vikingimike01]

Well.. I think you should test them with one of those electrical meters if it produces electricity. And if yes, there shouldn't be any problems.
How many wires are there on both ends? I belive the battery has a black, red, and a white wire. Am I correct?

 

[bakaneko]

Well, I asked some ES guys about the charger and generator problem and I think the best answer is that the generator does not produce a clean enough AC sin wave and that cheap (possibly defective) charger could not convert it to consistent DC. The generator works for the 36V charger which might have been of better quality and not defective. So, I bought another same type charger (exact same) and wired them in series to produce 84V charging. LOL I read online that doing it in parallel is iffy as the chargers might read the other charger voltage and not charge or go wacky. But, I think in series there is no problem...

So, it is alive! I got an extension cord for the charger with space for 6 chargers and plug in the 2 that I had. It charges the bike at a fast rate similar to the 72V3A charger (works in wall socket) that I had before I returned it. The combined chargers should be a 72V2A charger and provide about 160W of power. I am fine starting tests on this. I still need to figure out what the heck is going on with that other 72V3A charger if it was defective or that type does not work with the generator. And, these 36V chargers are super cheap like $10 each. I might try to buy two more and then add another 160W to the charging power strip... That I am unsure of since it will parallel the chargers and not sure if they will read each other voltages and freak out.

Also, this is a proof of concept, my ideal implementation of this concept would be an inframe generator (with sound dampening panels) and a battery across the top tube (similar to a motorcycle gas tank look) plus other things. I dub this contraption "The Frankenstein" after our late mb contributor. It isnt meant to look nice though I will try my best to make it not look too crappy but just test the concept and efficiency of it. This has been done before but I want really good numbers and also I think I am first to put it on the side like a panier and eventually do the progressive charge speeds (160-320-500).

It is gonna rain over the next two days so I will take that time to tidy the wires and mebe add an inline power meter to one of the 36V batteries. I am not comfortable doing a 72V power meter thing with the shunt thing. And, then this weekend, I will be free to do tests and possible a long ride. It is suppose to be nice too.

 

[bakaneko]

Here are some test results with the 160W charger setup. I did two test at 15 and 20 mph with and without generator. The 20 mph test with generator might be slightly incorrect as the wind conditions picked up substantially for that test. Overall, at 15 mph, the power consumption reduced by 50%, which is inline with 300W power requirement and 160W coming from charger/generator. I definitely want to get that 400W charger setup soon to really utilize the generator while not over taxing it (half load).

 

[darwin]

Look up Grin technology satiator 72v charger, pricey but it's the best for charging electric bike batteries. It's programmable and will go from 12v to 72v.

 

[bakaneko]

Look up Grin technology satiator 72v charger, pricey but it's the best for charging electric bike batteries. It's programmable and will go from 12v to 72v.

Yeah, I saw that and looked at some reviews. A rock solid charger designed to actually go on your bike and endure the bumps and rugged use. However, it is only 3A so 240W max which is fine but I really want 400W. I actually do not know what is the expectation of this hybrid or at what point do I say okay the completed hybrid works as expected. What is that expectation? I think 72V5A (400W) is about the upper limit of the charging I want to do (or is it? generator can go 800W), which is about 18-20MPH. This will allow me to use little battery juice and be just under the nasty wind drag curve at 20mph. 400W should also charge my battery (~1200 wH) in just under 3 hours from empty to full in case I need to stop somewhere on the road.

It be good to get your views on this too. I know you had both gas and electric bikes liking somethings from both. A hybrid should take strengths from both type of bikes but of course not without some compromises as it wont do 30-40 mph without using the battery and be completely silent. I mean what would u like to see from a serial hybrid (gas gen not two drive systems) in terms of speed and range.

 

[darwin]

The satiator I had would charge up to 8amps. You could program it from 2 to 8.

 

[bakaneko]

The satiator I had would charge up to 8amps. You could program it from 2 to 8.

That is for the mid voltage version I think. For the high voltage one I need it is only up to 3A. Also, I added a wH/mi and estimated gas consumption based on their .55 gal tank and 6.3 hours at 50% load to the chart. So, for that 15 minute ride I used 0.01 gallons for 3 miles which is like 150 miles per gallon (with only gas so I multiplied 0.01 by 2 and divided by 3 miles). Actually, really close to an efficient 4 stroke gas bike.

											.55 gal & 50%load 6.3hours
	Speed	Dist	Starting Voltage	Watt-Hour	Amp-Hour	Max Watts	Min Voltage	Max Amps	End Voltage	wH / mile	Est Gas (Gal)
Control	15​	3​	79.5​	68.2​	1.818​	844.4​	75.24​	22.04​	77.3​	22.7​	0​
	20​	3​		86.4​	2.01​	1154.6​	74.24​	31.74​	76.66​	28.8​	0​
Generator	15​	3​		35​	0.91​	830.6​	77.14​	21.64​	79.06​	11.7​	0.01​
160W	20​	3​		57.6​	1.534​	1140.4​	75.76​	30.46​	77.76​	19.2​	0.01​