72V 3000W Cyclone Electric and Gas Generator Build (SBP kit) - Three Phase Dev

bakaneko

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#21
Mebe, I said it incorrectly in my previous post, but I have 32aH or 8X 36V 4.4aH packs that are wired in parallel. Each one is rated to be charged up to 5A. This should mean I can charge this battery bank at 1480W or 40A (not going to do it) and be okay. I will be charging it at 300-500W which is 7-12A (which is well below 40A) or 0.9-1.5A per pack (rated at 5A). And, the charging isn't always happening as if the motor is running the gas generator will be powering the motor first and charging the battery only when I am coasting or stopped.

Yes, I know its been done before and numbers comparable to a well tuned 2-stroke or 4-stroke. The reason I am doing it on my bike is that I am running a 3kW cyclone motor that delivers 4HP and up to 6.5HP peak. This is more than enough by itself so multiple drive trains will just add complexity and points of failure. My bike will have a sizable battery capacity and I am hoping that the fact that the generator should only run at a high idle RPM will be more efficient than conventional motor bikes going at high revs even after the conversion losses.

But, this is an experiment and I am going to buy a motor (probably the HS 38cc) that can be used with a Staton friction drive incase I fail. But, I would prefer only one drive system.
 


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#22
On the batteries they can be charges to a full 5 amps but can they take a full 5 amp charge continuous charge idk, Ive beem living off of battery power since 2010. Always the 2 major problems that occur is total battery capacity and battery total life longevity. Back in New Mexico I had a two 400 watt wind generators and 180 watts of solar. When the wind was going I could run a table saw.... But stor8ng enough energy to run that saw was a riduclious amount of batteries and basically unfeaaible at thetimw for me I couldn't afford a ridiculous amount of batteries. But even deep cycle lead acid batteries fritz out... Luckily they usually give a bit of a fizzle noise so you know to diaconnect bwfore bad sh*t happens. Charging battoeriws while they are being used is a trial and error project to be sure. And the temp range of li-ion batteries may make them not as suitable, if cost isnt a problem maybe ni-cad battieries they are not as heavy as lead acid but more stable than li-ion. See even though you are 'using' the electricity that is over the amount that the battery can safely handle doesnt mean that it isnt trying to go to the battery first. Plus you said you are going to run 8× 36volt 5amp ion in parallel. That means 40 amps at 36 volts can push put 1140 amps for an hour... But they can each be charged safely only at 3amp so hypothetically 864 watts can be stored contiously until they are filled but I have found batteries of any type rarely take the charge as fast as they are advertised too much after a few charges. Probably safely charge at max 500 watts continuously on the ion battery set up you describe. Your whole system sounds very heavy of course any hybrid will be heavy for a bike. Remember High Amps KiLL wires, batteries, and occasionaly people.
 

Street Ryderz

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#23
On the batteries they can be charges to a full 5 amps but can they take a full 5 amp charge continuous charge idk, Ive beem living off of battery power since 2010. Always the 2 major problems that occur is total battery capacity and battery total life longevity. Back in New Mexico I had a two 400 watt wind generators and 180 watts of solar. When the wind was going I could run a table saw.... But stor8ng enough energy to run that saw was a riduclious amount of batteries and basically unfeaaible at thetimw for me I couldn't afford a ridiculous amount of batteries. But even deep cycle lead acid batteries fritz out... Luckily they usually give a bit of a fizzle noise so you know to diaconnect bwfore bad sh*t happens. Charging battoeriws while they are being used is a trial and error project to be sure. And the temp range of li-ion batteries may make them not as suitable, if cost isnt a problem maybe ni-cad battieries they are not as heavy as lead acid but more stable than li-ion. See even though you are 'using' the electricity that is over the amount that the battery can safely handle doesnt mean that it isnt trying to go to the battery first. Plus you said you are going to run 8× 36volt 5amp ion in parallel. That means 40 amps at 36 volts can push put 1140 amps for an hour... But they can each be charged safely only at 3amp so hypothetically 864 watts can be stored contiously until they are filled but I have found batteries of any type rarely take the charge as fast as they are advertised too much after a few charges. Probably safely charge at max 500 watts continuously on the ion battery set up you describe. Your whole system sounds very heavy of course any hybrid will be heavy for a bike. Remember High Amps KiLL wires, batteries, and occasionaly people.
Lead acid batteries suck! They are heavy and don't have a good cycle life and can't be rapid charged.Li-po are the way to go if you want lots of power and high cycle life.Li-po cells are light,very high output and can be charged at 3c some even higher.This means that a 5a cell can be safely charged at 15a and that same 5a cell may have a 20-25c discharge rating this means that the 5a cell will put out 100-125a safely and since most controlers are 30-40a you never even come close to working the cells hard enough to even get heated up.
 

Street Ryderz

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#25
If they are safe enough then have at.. Maybe I have just read too many horror stories on the internet.
Li-po cells have been used in r/c for over a decade now with little to no fear of fire/explosion with crazy 100+ amp loads on them.They don't really catch fire like Li-ion does they just fizzle and spark briefly but that's rare compared to the other multi chemistries so yeah there safe enough as long as they are used properly,I've got three years of use on average from this type cell with no issues.
 
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#26
Li-po cells have been used in r/c for over a decade now with little to no fear of fire/explosion with crazy 100+ amp loads on them.They don't really catch fire like Li-ion does they just fizzle and spark briefly but that's rare compared to the other multi chemistries so yeah there safe enough as long as they are used properly,I've got three years of use on average from this type cell with no issues.
with these ebikes. do you need some kinda programable controller. I see them and they look like a silver box with like 50 wires that i dont really know what they plug into. Can you get by with a giant potentialmeter to control the speed and a stud diode so you don't screw up the batteries when you pedal.
 

bakaneko

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#27
with these ebikes. do you need some kinda programable controller. I see them and they look like a silver box with like 50 wires that i dont really know what they plug into. Can you get by with a giant potentialmeter to control the speed and a stud diode so you don't screw up the batteries when you pedal.
Yes, there are controllers and different type of throttles and peddle assistant sensor w/ lcd to change power levels. I like the half throttle. most of those wires go towards different widgets and settings. at a base level, all you need is the controller, motor, throttle, and battery. a basic 48v 1000w rear hub kit on ebay is going for $140-160.
 
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#30
They have a gas 5cc one it's a lil more expensive but you can add your own tank and muffler set up
DYNE0500_a0.jpeg

It goes for 300 on a quick search
If you shop around may find something like it that's cheaper and you can find a good deal on tons of electric permenant magnet motors to choose from 750 watt brushless rc motors are quite cheap.
 

Street Ryderz

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#31
They have a gas 5cc one it's a lil more expensive but you can add your own tank and muffler set up
View attachment 84861
It goes for 300 on a quick search
If you shop around may find something like it that's cheaper and you can find a good deal on tons of electric permenant magnet motors to choose from 750 watt brushless rc motors are quite cheap.
That's a glow engine as in nitro fuel,not cheap,not cheap to run and meant for short run times not consistantly running at 20+k it's peak will be closer to 30k.
 

Street Ryderz

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#33
No that's gas the first one you reffered to was,still you don't get it these engines are not made for constant use like turning a generator,This engine makes it's peak power at 12k and not much of it compared to the glow fuel version's,designed for airplane models that see run times of 10-15 min with a propeller pushing air over it even at idle.That same prop doesn't take much to turn and there for bhp down low is non existant.This setup could work with gear reduction and some fabing but why it's so inefficient is so many ways! Here's the spec's for that engine right off the link you posted.
Specs:
Engine type: Single cylinder, 2-stroke, air-cooled
Bore/Stroke: 29 x 25.6
Piston displacement: 16.91cc
Max. power: 1.8HP/12,000rpm
Min. idle Rpm: 1800rpm
Practical RPM: 1800-12000rpm
Ignition: Rcexl CDI with auto advance
Spark plug: 1/4 x 32 Rcexl
Carburetor: Walbro WT series
Lubrication oil: 2 cycle Engine Oil API TC / JASO FD or better specs. (Mobil + M2T)
General use fuel: 20:1~25:1
Propellor range: 13x8 ~ 15x8
Dimensions/Weight:

Length backplate to propeller boss: 103.1mm
Mounting: 52mm x 25mm
Height from crank centreline to spark plug tip: 100mm
Weight: 850g (including ignition and muffler)
 
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#34
15 minutes of 750 watts at less than 10 pounds of gas and electric motors is a lot of range extension.... A harbor freight generator would be cheaper to set up but weigh so much more which decreases range and speed more than anything. Plus that's 15 minutes pulling in the air at 9800 rpm at full throttle... or at idle with no airflow. Bet at 3000k rev while the bike is moving it wouldn't heat neatly as quickly as you think.
 

Street Ryderz

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#36
15 minutes of 750 watts at less than 10 pounds of gas and electric motors is a lot of range extension.... A harbor freight generator would be cheaper to set up but weigh so much more which decreases range and speed more than anything. Plus that's 15 minutes pulling in the air at 9800 rpm at full throttle... or at idle with no airflow. Bet at 3000k rev while the bike is moving it wouldn't heat neatly as quickly as you think.
It takes 1hp to make 746 w,1hp for that type engine is around 9k.Also how are you going to get a brushless motor to work as gen?
 

Street Ryderz

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#37
15 minutes of 750 watts at less than 10 pounds of gas and electric motors is a lot of range extension.... A harbor freight generator would be cheaper to set up but weigh so much more which decreases range and speed more than anything. Plus that's 15 minutes pulling in the air at 9800 rpm at full throttle... or at idle with no airflow. Bet at 3000k rev while the bike is moving it wouldn't heat neatly as quickly as you think.
15 min of total run time,from start up through fine tunning,idle,and flight.Flight rarely is wot the whole time,but norm is 3/4 to keep it where the power is.in a buggy (car) with no prop cooling it just the air flow from speed,if I were to try and drive it around at 3K it wouldn't and would cook in min's,waste of a couple hundred bucks!
 
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#38
My old wind generator was brushless AC 400 watt motor hooked up to my 12 volt 120 amp hour battery pack...it is called a rectifier. Brushless are more efficient aka the have less drag at same watts produced vs the brushed motor a brushed motor would be easier to set up but heavier and less effecient. If the brushless motor has a permanent magnet in it you dont have to do anything special to generate electricity just rectify and reduce the voltage to where you want it. If it doesn't then you have to create an electromagnetic field in the motor before you can use it as a generator. A decent to high grade brushless small rc permanent magnet motor could easily make 72 volts at low amps (10 to 20) probably but you would have to create your own charge controller... Haven't found that online. But thats why personally I am going to go with 24 volt system with a 24 volt scooter motor or wind generator (like a my1016 or my1020) jackshafted to a "80cc" bike motor, there's alot of off the shelf parts in offgrid (wind solar hydro) and marine for consumers that could be adapted for the charging systems.
 

Street Ryderz

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#40
My old wind generator was brushless AC 400 watt motor hooked up to my 12 volt 120 amp hour battery pack...it is called a rectifier. Brushless are more efficient aka the have less drag at same watts produced vs the brushed motor a brushed motor would be easier to set up but heavier and less effecient. If the brushless motor has a permanent magnet in it you dont have to do anything special to generate electricity just rectify and reduce the voltage to where you want it. If it doesn't then you have to create an electromagnetic field in the motor before you can use it as a generator. A decent to high grade brushless small rc permanent magnet motor could easily make 72 volts at low amps (10 to 20) probably but you would have to create your own charge controller... Haven't found that online. But thats why personally I am going to go with 24 volt system with a 24 volt scooter motor or wind generator (like a my1016 or my1020) jackshafted to a "80cc" bike motor, there's alot of off the shelf parts in offgrid (wind solar hydro) and marine for consumers that could be adapted for the charging systems.
What they are is permanent magnet 3-phase synchronous motors and the esc is a DC to 3-phase inverter. What you generate is a three phase ac voltage, so not just a rectifier but rather an inverter then rectifier/regulator then whatever else.better have deep pockets.
 

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