72V 3000W Cyclone Electric and Gas Generator Build (SBP kit) - Three Phase Dev

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#41
Don't need a inverter and a rectifier both. An inverter normally takes DC 12 or 24 volt and turns it into AC 110 (so it rectifies and steps up all in one). If your 3 phase motor is putting out say 24 volts VAC at 20 amps at 3000 rpm (480 watts) then you only need to rectify it to DC and run a 24 volt system (look for something with a 95% effencience for this they have it). Not that pricey either) If your 3 phase motor is putting put 110 VAC at 20 amps at that same 3000 rpm (2200 watts) and you want to charge a 24 volt battery then you would need to rectify and step down the voltage (and raise the amps). Pricier but not by much. Now if you need to go from 24 volts dc to say 110 volt AC THEN you need an inverter and are losing 15% because the efficiency is usually only 85% on inverters!!!. And pricey unless you get a cheap on that fries easily. I replaced 3 inverters in 8 years but the charge cpntroller nevwr jad to be replaced. It is better to start with more voltage than you need and step down you have less loss of energy in the transfer compared to stepping up the voltage. The price of all these charge controllers for solar have dropped alot in the 10 years I have lived off-grid. My 12/24 volt 20 amp charge controller cost me $80 back then now you can get one from 10 to 20 dollars.
 


Street Ryderz

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#42
Don't need a inverter and a rectifier both. An inverter normally takes DC 12 or 24 volt and turns it into AC 110 (so it rectifies and steps up all in one). If your 3 phase motor is putting out say 24 volts VAC at 20 amps at 3000 rpm (480 watts) then you only need to rectify it to DC and run a 24 volt system (look for something with a 95% effencience for this they have it). Not that pricey either) If your 3 phase motor is putting put 110 VAC at 20 amps at that same 3000 rpm (2200 watts) and you want to charge a 24 volt battery then you would need to rectify and step down the voltage (and raise the amps). Pricier but not by much. Now if you need to go from 24 volts dc to say 110 volt AC THEN you need an inverter and are losing 15% because the efficiency is usually only 85% on inverters!!!. And pricey unless you get a cheap on that fries easily. I replaced 3 inverters in 8 years but the charge cpntroller nevwr jad to be replaced. It is better to start with more voltage than you need and step down you have less loss of energy in the transfer compared to stepping up the voltage. The price of all these charge controllers for solar have dropped alot in the 10 years I have lived off-grid. My 12/24 volt 20 amp charge controller cost me $80 back then now you can get one from 10 to 20 dollars.
An r/c brushless motor on average has a 2k kv rating and runs on 8-12v,so think about it at 3000 rpm your producing 1.5v @ 1a, so a whopping 1.5w.you'd have to spin the motor 24k to get 12v at 20a and still only produce 240w.
 
Joined
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#43
Don't need a inverter and a rectifier both. An inverter normally takes DC 12 or 24 volt and turns it into AC 110 (so it rectifies and steps up all in one). If your 3 phase motor is putting out say 24 volts VAC at 20 amps at 3000 rpm (480 watts) then you only need to rectify it to DC and run a 24 volt system (look for something with a 95% effencience for this they have it). Not that pricey either) If your 3 phase motor is putting put 110 VAC at 20 amps at that same 3000 rpm (2200 watts) and you want to charge a 24 volt battery then you would need to rectify and step down the voltage (and raise the amps). Pricier but not by much. Now if you need to go from 24 volts dc to say 110 volt AC THEN you need an inverter and are losing 15% because the efficiency is usually only 85% on inverters!!!. And pricey unless you get a cheap on that fries easily. I replaced 3 inverters in 8 years but the charge cpntroller nevwr jad to be replaced. It is better to start with more voltage than you need and step down you have less loss of energy in the transfer compared to stepping up the voltage. The price of all these charge controllers for solar have dropped alot in the 10 years I have lived off-grid. My 12/24 volt 20 amp charge controller cost me $80 back then now you can get one from 10 to 20 dollars.
An r/c brushless motor on average has a 2k kv rating and runs on 8-12v,so think about it at 3000 rpm your producing 1.5v @ 1a, so a whopping 1.5w.you'd have to spin the motor 24k to get 12v at 20a and still only produce 240w.

Well I have seen MANY different specs to many different small electric engines. One cant find it now said something like @22000 rpm max @750 watts. Wow that one 15cc gas engine I think also maxed out at 22000 rpm. And produced 1.8 hp so yes you would lose energy (approximately .8hp.. all cheap gas electric generators are rather inefficient) if running all out max being the @750 watts gained from the electric motor(maybe I can find a link to the one I am thinking about later). May be a better light weight comparable electic motor could be matched to the engine to get better bang for the buck. Nothing is for free and that is best little electric motors that are well under 10 pounds I've seen so far that hit the same rpm with decent tourque (so we dont have to f*** with gears and ratios...but have a direct drive between the two motors for less wear and tear vs belts or chains)that's a little better than 50% effiency. Maybe more eyes searching may find better candidates for a super light weight power generator... Its not impossible todays tech is so much more light weight vs power produced than just 20 years ago...
 

bakaneko

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#44
well, i ordered a lock ring remover from ebay and a "US seller" but turns out that the shipping was actually 1-2 weeks out. i got everything else but that so i got impatient and just removed most of the bottom bracket with the exception of the drive side housing (not sure word). it turns out that i didnt even need the stupid lock ring remover. but here i am stuck. i cant get this thing out. i dont have a 12"+ adjustable wrench atm. i will get one tomorrow if one more day of trying. this thing is really stuck and yes i know i turn it clockwise on the drive side to loosen. :confused:

also, ebay lesson. you have to double check the shipping time even if it saids us seller. if there is a 2 week range in it then i dont think they are truly a US seller or shipping super snail mail.

any thoughts?
 

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bakaneko

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#46
ugh, i got it out. i bought a 12" adjustable wrench to do it. so the package on the wrench saids it opens to 1.50" and when i got home it only opened to like ~1.35-1.40" and the nut was 1.41" so I had to file down a couple thousands... but it is out and i will try to get it all together in the next few days. i made a ghetto action camera out of an old camera and bungle cords for a chest mount. haha :D
 

bakaneko

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#47
So, I have it together and did some initial testing on 36V with a low battery (38V). The mid drive motor is very different from a rear hub motor. I initially had the drive chain on the smaller pedal chain ring and the bike only went like 20-22 mph max. Then I switched it to the larger chain ring and it is close to 30 mph on 6th gear with a low 36V battery. Most of my issues is that I do not have the app to program the controller yet so the throttle response is way too soft. I also switched out the rear hub motor with the stock rear wheel and there is a slight wobble in the wheel. This rear wheel is practically new as when I bought the bike I immediately put on the rear hub. I think the wobble is because the wheel is kinda loose in the drop outs, which have been widen due to the rear hub motor torque. I am not sure how long the wheel will last like that but we will see.

So, I need to get that app to figure out this controller to max performance. But so far it is good. I am going to do a performance test versus my rear hub. At 300-400W, I want to see the cruising speed at different gears with pedaling to get to max speed. With my 500W rear hub, at 300-400W, on a flat road, I can sustain like just below 20 mph (light rider). Thus far, I think the two motors are comparable but I've heard that rear hub motors are more efficient and mid drive are torquey so better with hills. I am also anxious to see this at 72V to see if I can hit 45 mph.

Also, I shoulda not install this kit on an old bike. Everything is rusted which made it difficult to install at certain steps. Better to just start with a new clean bike.

Also, it is unbearably cold (18-20F) and testing the bike is like painful... :cry:

To do
- Change zip tie bottom tube motor holder to a hose clamp and make tight
- Reinforce motor mount plates with a mid block to reduce rotational stress? I've seen this on endless sphere forum
- Change out white zip ties with better black zip ties (this is driving me crazy)
- Extend left hand handle grip so I can mount rearview mirror and have enough clearance so I don't accidently shift

- Keep an eye on that rear tire
- Switch over to 72V and figure out charging situation and power and aH monitoring
- Fix rear brake to work with smaller wheel ...
- Clean the bike (it is filthy)
- Change 14AWG wire to 10AWG wire (after figuring out final voltage 36 or 72)
 

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bakaneko

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#49
Hi. So, I finished a few things and went on a ride testing 36V at different gears. The first thing I learned is that this Walmart bike shifter is crap and that I cannot shift to 1st gear or my pedal chain will derail and I will have to push the bike back home or get the chain back on the ring in the road (requires actually removing the pedal and chainring since its so close to the bike frame). So, because the Walmart bike shifter is finnicky, I cannot shift to 2nd gear because sometimes it jumps to 1st and well thats trouble. So, I will just use 3rd to 6th gear, which is oke. I still have to program the controller and throttle but I think I understand why the power is not as high as I expected. At 36V, I think the max rpm of the engine is only 400 rpm with a max of 900 rpm at 84V.

On my 500W rear hub, I was going 17-19 mph at ~400W. I am getting about the same performance at that power level in 4th gear. It is hard to sustain the throttle without programming. I really need to program it; I think the RPM is hitting max and cutting the motor. In 6th gear, I am topping at 30 mph at about 1000-1200W. That being said, I am definitely going to change it to 72V tomorrow. I will need to figure out charging situation and wont be able to see power levels or aH used until I get a proper watt meter. The throttle has a voltage reading, which seems to be 0.6V less than what is shown on my watt meter.

Here is a video of me riding to some fun 80s music... People I showed it to say it is funny. Was trying to be serious. :oops: 1st video camera angle was not optimal and rearview mirror fell off at the end :ROFLMAO:

 
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bakaneko

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#51
Hi. So I switched the bike to 72V and there is a ton of power. I understand why the throttle is set to soft start 5 now (1-10 and soft and hard). I havent really opened it up yet to see what it can do but I went on a 10 mile errand ride that I typically take with my 500W rear hub and recorded it. Since I dont have a watt meter with the 72V setup it was difficult to do a direct comparison. On the 500W, I averaged like 2 miles per 1 aH. Here on the 72V Cyclone, I think going to the store (5mi) I used about 3V drop in resting voltage and coming back it was only like 2V drop, which is 1.5V and 1V respectively on my 36V 500W ebike. I think that is pretty decent. For the efficiency test, I pedal about the same as I would on my 500W.

Also, during this ride, I understand the limits of the scooter batteries. There is significant voltage sag when I really want speed +30 mph. Gonna muck around with it a bit more and clean it well then start gathering and brainstorming about phase 3 (gas generator). I am not going to do phase 2 (more batteries and aerodynamics) right away as I need to make sure my battery configuration matches what I have so the batteries dont blow up when I parallel charge all of them. But, the gas generator is key to this build. At the moment, if I get about 2-2.5 mile per V that is about 30-40 mile range (discounting some) from full charge 84V to 66V (not gonna hit that). I want more than that.

Here is the video. I am still learning but I fixed the awful static noise. Music is on and off. I will fix camera angle in next ride. :ROFLMAO:

 

bakaneko

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#52
Last video for a bit. Just wanted to post the ride back from store if anyone is interested. Cleaned bike and changed the white zip ties to black today. I will start the phase 3 work soon. Here I am coming home (5 mi) and dropped 2V. Much better than ride to store (2.5-3V).

 

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