A proposal aimed at cutting down fuel use

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by bluegoatwoods, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    What do you think of this?

    Let's increase fuel taxes. The obvious effects would be to discourage unnecessary driving and increase gov't revenues so that they can give our roads more repair, snow removal, etc.

    We'll also increase tax write-offs so that the burden of these taxes does not fall on business but on discretionary, personal driving instead. Sooner or later employers will have to raise pay because workers can't afford to get to work.
    But this is going to happen anyway. My proposal might aggravate this situation, but it won't cause it. And what about those workers who choose to use alternatives like buses or bicycles? Suddenly they'll be looking pretty. They might even be able to afford to eat.

    How about the elderly? Or some of our friends here at MBC who have diabetes or weakened hearts? Their burden must be relieved somehow. How about an increase in the Earned Income Credit (or whatever applies to a particular individual)? How about a big one? Then they can get around by car. Maybe after all adjustments they'll be paying the equivalent of $2.00/gallon. We'll have to figure out how to make it amounts that are fair and affordable. But in the "information age" that shouldn't too hard.
    And if they choose not to drive, but instead get around on a motor assisted bicycle, then so much the better.

    My parents, for instance, are now too old to be riding any kind of bike. So let's give people of such an age a social security surge to cover them. I hate the thought of people's retirements being destroyed because they can't get anywhere.

    I'll give you my word; I would gladly pay even more for fuel if it helps those with less ability to make more money to cover rising fuel costs. And my reasons are not completely altruistic; I just don't think that we can have a happy and "good" society if we leave some of our neighbors in the gutter.

    I actually won't pay all that much more, anyway, because I just won't drive very much. I'll leave that to people like Bill Gates. Their reward will be that they get to drive around town in a stretch limo. I can live without that.

    Naturally it'll have to be a community effort. Those of us who still have employment and income options will all have to help those who don't.

    But we could be rewarded with a future that is more sunny than the one we have facing us now.

    Is anyone with me?

  2. stude13

    stude13 Active Member

    hi; bill gates does not ride in limos. he quit wortking at microsoft so he and his wife can give more money to help more people. most of you ideas sound like communism. how is the government going to give anyone anything, we are 9 trillion in the hole now. mostly owed to china. read a book about libertarianism. right now in seattle. areas are getting together a building victory gardens. we have to take care of ourselves or we will perish from mother earth. now lets ride.
  3. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Sorry but the idea of the government taking my money and redistributing it is not an idea I support. I've worked to **** hard and will continue doing so to get ahead in life.

    The USA is the most generous nation in the world. Govt screws up everything it touches and should get out of the charity business with my tax money.

    I'll tell you about myself and my wife:
    My wife worked 40 hours a week and did dialysis 3x/week for 4-5 hours in order to put me through school. She could have easily gone on SS disability and collected her paycheck and had the government pay for her dialysis. Instead she worked, got health insurance, and had health insurance pay the 30k/month cost for her dialysis.

    I graduated with 75k in debt and could have easily gotten a job earning 120k/year but decided to pursue a speciality residency for another year earning peanuts. My paycheck doesn't even cover the cost of my wife's medical copays which added up to 1100 last month. We'll get by by not eating out, going to free movies at the park, when we splurge we go to the dollar movie theater and sneak in our own snacks and drinks. I sold some of my possessions to pay for our living expenses but the sacrificed we are making will pay off in the future.

    My wife's and my hard work will be rewarded by paying a greater percentage of taxes on my income versus lower income people. What is fair about being in the 25-33 percent tax bracket versus someone who earns less being in the 10 percent bracket? Shouldn't my vote at the ballot box count 2.5-3.3 x more than the person who pays 10% of their income in taxes and I end up paying almost 1/3?

    We should all be taxed at the same rate after all aren't we all equal? Even at 10%, I still will pay more dollar wise than a lower income person so it evens all out. Our country is going down the toilet because we have too many people milking the system for handouts and freebies and the tax burden and cost of doing biz in the USA is sending our jobs overseas.

    I'm off my soap box. You are responsible for your own future and life including retirement. Don't rely on SS for your retirement, instead invent a percentage of your income for your future and you'll be better off.
  4. graucho

    graucho Active Member

    Whooooo Now! :shock: Tens of thousands of us are tring to keep the american auto dream alive. I love the american automobile. It will be a sad, sad day then that day comes. I'm all for conserving oil/fuel/energy but I grew up with a love of cars/trucks and anything mechanical. Lets get the "F"ing car maunfacturers to get their carp together and "finish" what they "should have finished" back in the 70's.

    Watch a car commercial today. They say... WOW, look at us... great mileage at 33mpg. "F"ing idiot maunfacturers, get a clue what good mileage is. A little nobody like me figured out to get 27% from my stock set up. (Takes a deep breath) OK, i'm better now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd81TUAhSRA LOL

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  5. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    As things are right now those who choose to drive big suvs already pay more in road taxes then small vehicle owners do. More gallons consumed = more taxes paid. More power to them if they can afford it. It is none of my business if someone chooses a gas guzzler but remember THEY ARE PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE my friend.
  6. Sure people who drive a gas guzzler are paying more at the pump which equates to more tax dollars in. But that doesn't offset the amount of damage a heavy vehicle does to the roads. Growing up everyone had an economy car- I grew up in a poor area- or a pick up truck. And the Pick ups were for work, people used them to haul stuff. Our roads were in decent condition. Now that everyone drives around in heavy vehicles the roads are worse than ever. Our road surfaces are great for smaller light weight vehicles and occasional heavy vehicle use nut not everyday heavy vehicle use. The large SUV's weigh in some cases 3x's as much as my little cars (98 honda civic(just sold), 01 VW jetta and an 08 versa.)

    Buying a new car was an eye opening experience for me. When I bought my Civic back in 98 the average high end of fuel use was between 28 and 35, my driving regularly got 37 and occasionally 40mpg. When I was searching for a new car I went to Toyota and told them the #1 thing for me was fuel economy, they kept showing me cars that got a high of 28mpg. When I said that wasn't good enough the guy fed me a line about how that's an EPA rating and most of the vehicles get better than that. Honda said the same thing as did Nissan.

    I considered sinking the $4grand into my honda to get the work done that needed to happen, but I don't have that kind of cash. I'm really sad about the whole thing though- I'll never see 40mpg with this versa. It's a great little car but these newer cars just don't run the same way as the 98s did- they just aren't as efficient.

    What I don't get is why our auto manufacturers continued to make giant SUVs and trucks to their downfall? American autos used to be ahead of the curve. Made great vehicles that were good for their times. Now American autos stink. The big companies should have ceased making big vehicles as we saw oil prices rocket upwards and should have started to make a series of smaller lightweight efficient vehicles. I'm tired of hearing "american's will never give up their SUVs" I cry BS- you should have seen how many people were at toyota, honda and nissan driving in with an SUV and leaving with something small. The auto companies take the American people for a fool and as a result are losing business to companies already making smaller cars.

    Since I'm ranting here- what is up with American hybrids only getting 35mpg? Prius gets 70? Ford can't afford decent engineers to come up with a efficient hybrid? Sure 35mpg is "good" for a SUV but why not take it the next step and put out an SUV that get 50mpg? Had Ford done that guess what I'd be driving?

    I'm with Skyliner70cc on this one though- as much as I HATE that American auto companies can't make a decent car to save themselves I don't want to pay the government to redistribute my hard earned cash. I work hard for my money and I see people milking the system everyday. Not to say that I haven't been on the receiving end of charity- growing up we were on welfare for 6 months when my dad was let go from his job. I remember watching my parents both CRY as they filled out the paperwork. Guess what though- my mom took a second job, Dad took something out of his field until he found something. Then they both worked 2 jobs until all the bills were paid. Big lesson I learned from that- being on welfare is awful. I was 5 and until I was 6 I rarely ever saw my parents. But the fact is if the government can't figure out who should and shouldn't be on welfare then I don't want them to have my money.

    That being said I believe that the elderly should be taken care of, the Social Security system is broken and it only gets worse every year. A good chunk of my check goes to a broken system.

    Our government is pretty messed up right now and I can only hope that we get a president and congress in who can do something about this mess.
  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    From a retired Civil Servant -- let us not raise taxes on anything -- many of these MORE TAX MONIES COLLECTED never seem to get where they are suppose to go. The bureaucracy eats much of it up... The less goverment and less taxes -- the better.. Happy Riding from - Mountainman
  8. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    We were eligible for food stamps my entire childhood. My parents, immigrants from Europe, would never consider taking assistance-they were too proud but I wish they did for a bit
    Pride didn't feed us several times when they ran out of money and couldn't afford groceries but pride didn't get in the way from my father taking a job at a sewer treatment plant that offered more job security and a good retirement pension.

    What comfortable and my parents did doesn't doesn't seem to be the norm anymore. America's rugged individualism is fading away and thats a shame because that is what made us great.

    SS is broke and won't be there for us in the future. There must be a better way such as individual savings accounts but problem is certain politicians don't trust people enough with their own money.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  9. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Fords hybrid escape model gets less gas milage than the prius because it weighs twice as much and is 2 times more powerful. Prius is a piece of junk if you do anything functional in it besides going from point a to point b. Ford is a great american company and can match any other out there. BUY AMERICAN!
  10. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    Bill Gates was meant as an example. I have no idea whether he actually drives around in a limo or not. But I suspect he probably does. What I'm suggesting, among other things, is that the auto is not a good transport choice for all; that we can't afford it in it's totality.
    Though I'm egalitarian in basic philosophy, I recognize this and accept the fact that the wealthy can drive one and most of us can not. (Though maybe that's not a fact yet. I suspect it will be in the future.)

    This is one of their rewards for having the brains and work ethic that got them wealthy.
    And I'm ok with that. (though this doesn't address the question "are their children more worthy of these luxuries than the rest of us?" But we'll have to set that aside, since we're speaking in generalities here)

    I wouldn't call my ideas communism. But maybe they're closer to western European style socialism. And I keep hearing how their economies are on the skids. Yet they seem to get along as well as America, anyway.

    And I'm not so sure that communism has to be such a bad thing. Yeah, we all know that the Soviets screwed it up. And the Chinese gave it up. But does this prove that it's a bad idea. I can't help thinking that IF it were administered properly, then it would be superior to what we have.

    And the Libertarians do have some notions that I like. But they also have one serious shortcoming; they're not concerned with abuse of the individual by private concerns. (And this has gotten much, much worse during just my lifetime. The last decade, for that matter.) Being concerned with abuse of the individual by government is well and good. But it's not enough.

    Do we really want a society with a small aristocracy holding all wealth and luxury resting on the backs of a working class that is meant to die after reaching the end of their working life? Do we really want a society with actually hungry children and elderly and infirm?

    I refuse to believe that we want such a thing. Though I'll admit I've seen plenty of evidence that we do.
  11. astring

    astring Member

    I say high fuel use vehicles should be levied a one time $20,000 tax with proceeds going to providing free motored bikes to guys like us.
  12. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    Dang! If that was the case, GEBE would never get caught up! :lol::lol::lol: