Are bike with more speeds better or with single speed?

The_Aleman

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
785
With the motor you'll find you really don't need a ton of speeds because the motor takes up a range of pedal speed therefore you will be pedaling and it will do nothing.
thing about multi speeds, if your engine has a pretty broad range of torque, multi speeds will not gain much in acceleration bcs of the downtime req'd for shifting.
I disagree with this. Using my 7-speed Shimano MegaRange with an HT66 and 34T as an example, here was my method for max acceleration:

From a stop, pedal off the line in 2nd gear, shift to 4th gear. Let out clutch, give gas, pedal until shift to 7th gear, give gas and pedal harder. This gave me very good acceleration from 0-35MPH, much much moreso than without pedaling at all, and a bike shift is under 1 second. Having a wide range of pedal ratios will help acceleration significantly - especially against the wind or uphill. In a headwind I'd shift to 6th gear instead of 7th. My 6th gear was 46-14, my 7th gear was 46-11.

Pedal power greatly adds to the overall torque in one's drivetrain if you're geared for it. A multispeed-pedaled CG bike will have much more overall acceleration than a singlespeed-pedaled CG bike if engines are equal.

ex. a v12 viper has like the broadest torque band of anything ever made lol and 1st + 2nd gear will get you to any desired speed up to over 120mph quickly
Vipers have a V10, and modern turbo engines have a much broader torque band thanks to electronic wizardry. A VW/Audi 1.8T makes max torque from 1800-5000 for example, many turbo engines are similar. Also a Viper can't hit 120MPH even in 3rd gear unless it has a diff numerically lower than 3.00:1. A 3.07:1-equipped Viper (numerically lowest available diff from factory) will hit 114MPH in 3rd gear at redline. Sorry, don't mean to sidetrack here, I'm just a huge fan of the Viper, and having driven one once, the immense torque it has might get one thinking it can do more than it actually can. They can start out of 3rd gear without touching the throttle!

If you're looking for a multi speed shifter bike with a jack shaft I recommend the Nuvinci hub.
I wouldn't recommend a NuVinci for anything but pedal power or very mild electric assist. The original N171 (discontinued in 2010) can handle engine assist, but the later ones can't. The N360 (250W limit) and N380 (350W limit) will grenade with even a mild HT48. Gas engines produce torque spikes that those hubs don't like. They also take very expensive fluid that they love to seep out when hot.

------

Anyway, I'm pretty sure OP is just asking which bike to start out with for a typical starter build. We might be confusing him a little :LOL:
 


JerboaJohn

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Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
900
@the aleman,, past my bedtime lol for doofus errors.
but you're proposing the lessen constant load on the engine for like using 6th in wind against using 7th. that's not accelerating, and pedal assist, mostly at constant speed not running up to max also just is load reduction. 2 speed Powerglides were the fav and out did the Turbo 350/400's for a looong time in drag racing until like '74 where acceleration is the only thing. half a second to shift abouts, manually not auto- tho, saved half a second

here's specs on Vipers - w/tranny TR 6060:
2013–2016 SRT/Dodge Viper[7] 1st-6th, Final Drive2.261.581.191.000.770.632.90, 3.55*
*2016 model SRT featured a lower rear axle ratio than previous models
 

gary55

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
3,024
I disagree with this. Using my 7-speed Shimano MegaRange with an HT66 and 34T as an example, here was my method for max acceleration:

From a stop, pedal off the line in 2nd gear, shift to 4th gear. Let out clutch, give gas, pedal until shift to 7th gear, give gas and pedal harder. This gave me very good acceleration from 0-35MPH, much much moreso than without pedaling at all, and a bike shift is under 1 second. Having a wide range of pedal ratios will help acceleration significantly - especially against the wind or uphill. In a headwind I'd shift to 6th gear instead of 7th. My 6th gear was 46-14, my 7th gear was 46-11.

Pedal power greatly adds to the overall torque in one's drivetrain if you're geared for it. A multispeed-pedaled CG bike will have much more overall acceleration than a singlespeed-pedaled CG bike if engines are equal.



Vipers have a V10, and modern turbo engines have a much broader torque band thanks to electronic wizardry. A VW/Audi 1.8T makes max torque from 1800-5000 for example, many turbo engines are similar. Also a Viper can't hit 120MPH even in 3rd gear unless it has a diff numerically lower than 3.00:1. A 3.07:1-equipped Viper (numerically lowest available diff from factory) will hit 114MPH in 3rd gear at redline. Sorry, don't mean to sidetrack here, I'm just a huge fan of the Viper, and having driven one once, the immense torque it has might get one thinking it can do more than it actually can. They can start out of 3rd gear without touching the throttle!



I wouldn't recommend a NuVinci for anything but pedal power or very mild electric assist. The original N171 (discontinued in 2010) can handle engine assist, but the later ones can't. The N360 (250W limit) and N380 (350W limit) will grenade with even a mild HT48. Gas engines produce torque spikes that those hubs don't like. They also take very expensive fluid that they love to seep out when hot.

------

Anyway, I'm pretty sure OP is just asking which bike to start out with for a typical starter build. We might be confusing him a little :LOL:
Just throwing our some options. Your wrong about the NuVincies though. I have a 360 that has been running strong for 2 years now. Has plenty of power to it, climbs like a beast, and cruises at 30 with no strain on the engine at all.
View media item 61474
 

Sumsloppymeet

Active Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
497
not a fan of purple but i remember that bike i like it reason i got the same exhaust silencer lmao yours looks like its holding together better tho i had to use a hose with clamps and a bbunch of flexfit aluminum tape to seal mine lmao
 

LR Jerry

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Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
1,064
This now simplifies things in that you aren't talking about multiple motor driven gears.

I'd personally never recommend motorizing a $1000+ bicycle. It defeats the purpose of buying an expensive bicycle. Rather stick to motorizing department store bicycles. I also never recommend department store freewheel hubs for shift kits; the axles are prone to bending on the freewheel side. One should use a cassette instead. However when using a single ratio left side mount a freewheel is ok since the freewheel is only under leg power.

My personal preference is steel framed hard tail department store mountain bikes using a 3x7 drive for a basic 2 stroke kit left side rear wheel sprocket mount.

First let me teach you how the 3x7 drive system works. Many call this a 21 speed bike. However you don't have 21 gear ratios you have 21 gearing combinations. As for actual ratios you only have 12 ratios if using a 28-14 freewheel and a 10t cross over triple crank. The other 9 gears are redundant gearing. Redundant gearing serves no practical purpose; it just causes confusion.

Here's how to properly shift a 3x7 with a 28-14 freewheel and 10t cross over triple crank. Lowest to highest ratios. 1(1-4), 2(2-5), 3(4-7) for 12 non redundant ratios. Here's how they are used. Entering an incline at a slow speed 1(1-4). Level ground comfort riding 2(2-5). Declines and level ground sprinting 3(4-7).

You should be in a gear where you can comfortably maintain a cadence (crank rpm) of 70-90. You can do this with a bicycle computer that has a cadence meter on it. Here's a very affordable one.


If a gear is too easy or too hard to maintain a cadence of 70-90 under leg power it means you're in the wrong gear.

Never cross chain (big big or little little); that's 3(1) or 1(7) on the 3x7. Never stand while shifting. Never use both shifters at the same time. Never shift while pedaling backwards.

Use a starting gear. Be in 1(1) before stopping for stops going up hill, then use 1(1) as a starting gear. All other stops use 2(2).

Most of these bikes have the following as a triple crank {22,32,42}; {24,34,44}; {28,38,48}. So whatever your highest 3(7) gear is your top speed is going to be 20-24 mph at a 90 cadence on 26" tires. So if you're going down hill once you've hit the max speed at a 90 cadence you're no longer contributing to the acceleration; gravity has now taken over.
________________________________________________

After explaining the fundamentals of multi geared cycling here's how you use that with a 2 stroke single ratio drive system.

For the most part you won't be using 3(4-7). Simply because on level ground with the engine assist you'll obtain speeds higher than 25 mph. By using a multi geared bike you can run a much smaller rear sprocket than what comes with the kit. Meaning you'll get higher top end speeds. By going through the gears you can use leg power to assist the motor until it no longer needs you to do so. If you have to climb a really steep hill you can use a climbing gear with the motor assisting your legs in the climb.

Get a bike with front suspension and buy an adjustable tension suspension seat post. You only want a slight bend in your knee when the crank is in the 6 o'clock position. I personally use 26"x2" Kendra 838 slick tires. At least use helmet mirrors. All of this will give you a much more comfortable ride. I like putting both derailleurs shifters on the left handle bar. I personally like using a 7 position twist shifter and a 3 position thumb shifter.

Then no matter where you're at you should be able to crank your bike going up hill with 1(1) or anywhere else using 2(2). If you have an engine failure or run out of gas you will know how to use your 3x7 drive system to get home.
 
Last edited:

gary55

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
3,024
not a fan of purple but i remember that bike i like it reason i got the same exhaust silencer lmao yours looks like its holding together better tho i had to use a hose with clamps and a bbunch of flexfit aluminum tape to seal mine lmao
The purple grows on you, but if I get tired of it I can just ride the gray one for a while.
View media item 60094
 

Street Ryderz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
2,951
This now simplifies things in that you aren't talking about multiple motor driven gears.

I'd personally never recommend motorizing a $1000+ bicycle. It defeats the purpose of buying an expensive bicycle. Rather stick to motorizing department store bicycles. I also never recommend department store freewheel hubs for shift kits; the axles are prone to bending on the freewheel side. One should use a cassette instead. However when using a single ratio left side mount a freewheel is ok since the freewheel is only under leg power.

My personal preference is steel framed hard tail department store mountain bikes using a 3x7 drive for a basic 2 stroke kit left side rear wheel sprocket mount.

First let me teach you how the 3x7 drive system works. Many call this a 21 speed bike. However you don't have 21 gear ratios you have 21 gearing combinations. As for actual ratios you only have 12 ratios if using a 28-14 freewheel and a 10t cross over triple crank. The other 9 gears are redundant gearing. Redundant gearing serves no practical purpose; it just causes confusion.

Here's how to properly shift a 3x7 with a 28-14 freewheel and 10t cross over triple crank. Lowest to highest ratios. 1(1-4), 2(2-5), 3(4-7) for 12 non redundant ratios. Here's how they are used. Entering an incline at a slow speed 1(1-4). Level ground comfort riding 2(2-5). Declines and level ground sprinting 3(4-7).

You should be in a gear where you can comfortably maintain a cadence (crank rpm) of 70-90. You can do this with a bicycle computer that has a cadence meter on it. Here's a very affordable one.


If a gear is too easy or too hard to maintain a cadence of 70-90 under leg power it means you're in the wrong gear.

Never cross chain (big big or little little); that's 3(1) or 1(7) on the 3x7. Never stand while shifting. Never use both shifters at the same time. Never shift while pedaling backwards.

Use a starting gear. Be in 1(1) before stopping for stops going up hill, then use 1(1) as a starting gear. All other stops use 2(2).

Most of these bikes have the following as a triple crank {22,32,42}; {24,34,44}; {28,38,48}. So whatever your highest 3(7) gear is your top speed is going to be 20-24 mph at a 90 cadence on 26" tires. So if you're going down hill once you've hit the max speed at a 90 cadence you're no longer contributing to the acceleration; gravity has now taken over.
________________________________________________

After explaining the fundamentals of multi geared cycling here's how you use that with a 2 stroke single ratio drive system.

For the most part you won't be using 3(4-7). Simply because on level ground with the engine assist you'll obtain speeds higher than 25 mph. By using a multi geared bike you can run a much larger rear sprocket than what comes with the kit. Meaning you'll get higher top end speeds. By going through the gears you can use leg power to assist the motor until it no longer needs you to do so. If you have to climb a really steep hill you can use a climbing gear with the motor assisting your legs in the climb.

Get a bike with front suspension and buy an adjustable tension suspension seat post. You only want a slight bend in your knee when the crank is in the 6 o'clock position. I personally use 26"x2" Kendra 838 slick tires. At least use helmet mirrors. All of this will give you a much more comfortable ride. I like putting both derailleurs shifters on the left handle bar. I personally like using a 7 position twist shifter and a 3 position thumb shifter.

Then no matter where you're at you should be able to crank your bike going up hill with 1(1) or anywhere else using 2(2). If you have an engine failure or run out of gas you will know how to use your 3x7 drive system to get home.
This part you said!By using a multi geared bike you can run a much larger rear sprocket than what comes with the kit. Meaning you'll get higher top end speeds. WTF are you talking about? I use a 7spd 11-34 free wheel and have for years,and with a 44t chain ring on the 11t I can't even get close to keeping up to or helping the engine after 1/4 throttle it's all no load fake peddaling.
 
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