Are We Outlaws ??

I think my point was that governments tax "because they can".

When (and if) ebikes become enough of a mass marketed product which people use regularly in large numbers it would be then that the government might take an interest in ebikes as a new revenue stream. Governments aren't dumb (well not completely anyway) and they are good at recognizing where the money is located. This is why the founding fathers had such a paranoia about government because they knew that if it can grow itself by preying on the people it will. (and always does)

Ebikes are at present in a state of "grace" in the eyes of the law in some areas and considered a problem in others. It kind of depends on where you live I think... cities seem to not want them, but suburbs see them as okay.

The "Outlaw" biker with his overpowered machine has the potential to attract attention to ebiking and motorized biking and that "could" force either a crackdown or a change in policy that would require registration.

All governments (federal, state and local) are hungry for money now... so the primary thing to fear is a money grab. If all of a sudden these motorized bikes require a $25 yearly registration fee that's going to alienate a lot of people and they will either quit or decide to go all the way to a motorcycle. Motorcycles are pretty much without rules except for the usual traffic laws, so if you really want unrestrained performance you can always just pay for it.

Money, power, politics.... it's always the same... we're human.

Bribery?

One could imagine some sort of government program where if you pay a small fee and get some sort of "moped license" that if you are then pulled over you could show that and get off no matter what modifications you've done on your machine. (maybe if you have a valid drivers license)

I've never been hassled... so it's not at present a big problem.

------------------------------------

Kerf, you are quoting one of my ancestors on my moms side of the family. (Sam Adams)

on the other hand if everyone followed the rules, there wouldn't be anyone riding, and our hobby would stay illegal indefinitely. us outlaws that ride anyway raise awareness of motor bicycling. more people that see us riding means more people that will be inspired to build their own, and once enough people start riding the government will have no choice but to update the law accordingly.
 
Could be we're related, I come from Adams blood myself. Small world.

Sounds likely. My cousins did a complete geneology research going way, way back and found the link.

Well, keep up the "rabble rousing". :D
 
on the other hand if everyone followed the rules, there wouldn't be anyone riding, and our hobby would stay illegal indefinitely.

I ride legally where I live.

If you are using a gas powered bicycle then the laws are more difficult, but for electric the majority of states allow them. The Federal Ebike Law defines what the electric bike is supposed to be built like and most states have their own laws set up so that things are more relaxed than the Federal definition. (in most cases)

Riding illegally probably does NOT help the cause of motorized biking because it sets up a relationship where you are a "criminal" acting alone as an individual and the law acts as a representative of the public. The better choice would be to get involved in lobbying efforts to get enough people to change the laws.

Breaking laws individually seldom changes anything. Getting a ticket in some dark alley changes nothing.

You would be better off getting 10 - 20 motorized bikers to parade up and down the street in defiance with the news cameras documenting the scene. That way you get some impact.
 
Clearly not an outlaw . . .

I took my rat rod '36 All American Death Racer for a ride around downtown Raleigh on Saturday afternoon. Came up to an intersection blocked off with PD cruisers and a couple of the Popo directing traffic for a CROP Walk.

I was wearing my brain bucket and I did turn on my head and tail lamps before I rolled up to the blockade. I was first in line. After sitting with the motor at idle for at least a minute, I turned it off. The young officer gave a casual glance in my direction and then waved my through the intersection. I pedaled up to speed, popped the clutch and was on my way without a chase.

I guess it is legal or at least tolorable to ride a motorized bike in Raleigh.

At the end of the day, it's not the bike that makes the outlaw---it's the behavior.

Chris
 
I ride legally where I live.

If you are using a gas powered bicycle then the laws are more difficult, but for electric the majority of states allow them......

Why should gas powered bicycles be any different from electric powered bicycles. Both are bicycles with power sources other than the rider.
 
Gas powered bikes usually fall under the states moped laws.

Many states also have a parallel set of their own (often unique) electric bicycle laws. These are separated from the moped laws.

Finally there is the Federal Ebike Law that establishes the framework of how the electric bike should be configured in a universal way. It's intent was to supercede the state laws over time, but the states and localities still retain their right to not comply with it. (it's like a "hint" to the states that "this is the way it's supposed to be")

-------------------------------

The advantage of ebikes that fall under the proper classification for the Federal Ebike Law is that in the states that allow them they are automatically viewed (in the eyes of the law) as just a bicycle. So if a bicycle can go someplace, then a legally configured ebike can too... but... as always the local laws can override. The Federal Ebike Law also protects the manufacturer because they only need to pass the basic bicycle safety rules.

Gas powered bicycles are in a sort of limbo state between the electric bike and the moped. The moped is then a step below the motorcycle. When someone wants unlimited power they can just go to a motorcycle, but then you are expected to have all the license and registration stuff.

The "Outlaw" disturbs the delicate (fragile) acceptance of these machines that are supposed to be kind of low powered. The message should be that if someone wants more motored bike power than the laws allow they ought to just go up to the appropriate class. (if you want a 20 hp bike you need a motorcycle and not think otherwise)

Brackets Tend To Go Like:

Electric Bike - Up to 1 hp

Gas Powered Bike - Up to 3 hp

Moped - Up to 3 hp

Motorcycle - Unlimited
 
Last edited:
Gas powered bikes usually fall under the states moped laws.

Many states also have a parallel set of their own (often unique) electric bicycle laws. These are separated from the moped laws.......

This should not be.

I view a moped as a purpose built small motorcycle with pedals as a way to start it. A motorized bicycle (electric or gas) can utilize pedal power as a practical way of riding the bike. (not true with a moped) MB's should be unregulated, the same way pedal bicycles are. No registration, no insurance, no licensing. Just practical limits like a 25 mph speed limit, and maybe even a 15+ year old age restriction. I personally saw moped sales and popularity go down the toilet here in NJ because of over regulation in the late 70's and early eighties. Mopeds used to be a common sight in the suburbs and at the local high schools here in NJ until the "powers that be" did their job..........

If you think e-bikes should have separate regulations than gas powered MB's because you are an e-bike supporter - remember that the government will eventually over-regulate e-bikes to the point of extinction. (safety being the excuse - you might put an eye out......)
 
The decision about ebikes is already "done".

Once the Federal Government sets a standard and commits it to the law it's not going to change. You can be sure of that. (it's possible to change it, but very, very difficult)

The Federal Ebike Law has three conditions:

:D Must have operable pedals

:D Must not exceed 1 hp

:D Must not exceed 20 mph by motor power alone

...you might as well write that in stone because it's forever.

As for the gas powered bicycle... well... they don't seem to have a clear definition. The Federal government has not made any universal standard for that category. So you still have time left to lobby the Federal government to do something similiar for the gas powered bikes.
 
.......Once the Federal Government sets a standard and commits it to the law it's not going to change. You can be sure of that. (it's possible to change it, but very, very difficult).......

Tell that to the residents of Kahleeforneeia, who have automobile emission standards that are more stringent than the federal government standard. (for decades, costing consumers millions)

When you fight for MB rights and freedom from regulation, you should do it for gas and electric bikes. Because when gas MB's are outlawed, your e-bikes will be the next target. If you can somehow persuade me that I am wrong, then go for it, I am open to suggestion. Problem is that I have history on my side.

Be careful what you wish for, because someday it may come true.
 
Last edited:
They should outlaw e-bikes period, you can't hear them.

As a motorist who pays taxes to use the roads, the last thing I need to do is be sharring them with some vagrant who can't afford a car, having ability to excellerate quickly w/o me hearing.
 
Back
Top