Australia 66cc Legal if peddling ?

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by Dameize, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    Basically im 16 at the moment and I know this will get scrutinized as its usually people my age ruining it for everyone else. Before I ask the question I will give you a brief over view of why I use the motor. Basically before getting it I rarely left my room and constantly did nothing at all. Since getting it ive been going out sometimes and still peddling at bits but also cautiously and properly using the motor not riding near cars and annoying them and being carefully and knowledgeable of pedestrians, so that is not an issue as I do not act like an idiot at all. I simply cruise at about 20kmph and then use it up hills, down hills i dont use it at all. My main issue is that in Queensland Australia they are illegal unless they are Electric only and below 200 wats. Obviously theres only a small chance of seing police but there is about 4 cars in my town with 2 of them constantly driving around on patrol who have not yet stopped me or bothered me as i generally kill the engine and pedal when I see them.

    The question !. If I am peddling and they notice my bike has a motor can they legally do anything?. I mean if i see them and its on a path chances are i wont be going noticeably fast anyway so other than the noise they wont know especially if i kill it when i see them.

    I need to know if anyone here from QLD has been pulled over and what happened? and also what they would do if you were taken to court over it with me only being 16 im guessing either my parents would be liable or I would get a warning if i play dumb and say i was unaware.

    That is all the information I can really give and the main question from ^ was If when the police see me I am pedaling with the engine killed can they do anything if i state "I dont know what cc it is and i only use the engine when reaching hills".

    Cheers, any advice is appreciated.

  2. Ieataxolotls

    Ieataxolotls New Member

    Not good news but, I have read somewhere on these forums that people have been pulled over and fined. I am sure someone else will provide better information as I'm from Melbourne.
  3. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    Thanks for the feedback, were they pulled over while pedaling? or while actually riding it?
  4. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Firstly, i would like to welcome Dameize to the forum.

    It's refreshing to hear a younger person speak with so much common sense; using coherent, non textual language and i'm looking forward to reading Dameize's future input.

    My experiences of riding a motorised bicycle in Melbourne are relatively positive, in that i haven't been pulled over by the police, even though being passed by unmarked and marked police vehicles on my trips to Melbourne's CBD district and also on the way home to the outer south eastern suburbs.

    Using a disciplined approach to try and prevent standing out from the crowd has me waiting in line with traffic; not sneaking up to the front of the traffic lights; turning off the engine if noticing a marked or unmarked police vehicle and not using the engine on pedestrian walkways - plain common sense stuff.
    Having said that, when on the road, i'm always pedaling and try to vary my cadence with terrain changes, trying to convey an impression from a distance that i'm just riding a conventional bicycle.
    So far (whilst riding my motorised bicycle) i've travelled 5000 kilometers without any traffic infringements.

    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  5. professor

    professor Active Member

    Boy, I sure agree with Fabian. You got your head together at 16!
    I am also in a non-legal use situation here in New York, at the moment.
    I went as far as hiding the motor under shopping bags, super muffled exhaust and intake (engine clatter is audible though). One thing I would add is to wear obvious safety gear so that you LOOK like an experienced, careful cyclist. You will also get more respect from motorists!
    I wear a motorcycle helmet and safety vest or a bright white jacket, and I go road bike speeds- 20 mph.
    Where is your motor?
  6. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    The motor is under the seat in the large Triangle/ V shape in the frame. Im not bike wise as far as frames etc go so i cant give you the correct name but im gathering you know what i mean :). It is basically one of the 2stroke kits that go in the ^^ gap in the frame area and then use the chain to move the sprocket. My friend has one so I have gone for a ride with him a few times and Im overly enjoying the experience. He is slightly more daring though and actually rides on roads sometimes he has probably done about 3000km in total though and is more confident and road wise than my self. When we went to a place a few towns over i road on the gravel area at about 30/40kmph but he went on the road and kept up with the cars at 70ish. It is one of the Grubbeime (i think thats how you spell it) motors. The only thing close to the law that has stopped me has been a positive experience was when we were outside the local shops and a security guard was excited and asked us about it.
  7. reddbak

    reddbak Guest

    Yup, what Fabian says is about it. Here in regional ueensland the wife and I have been motoredbiking for 2 years without a hassle. Have had some questioning looks from the local wallopers but I don't think they know the regs have outlawed the petrol engines in Oz.

    Basically, if you ride it like a motorcycle you'll eventually get pulled over, especially if it's loud or you cut cagers off. But pedal most of the time (especially when you smell the boys) and use the engine for roundys and uphill and you'll likely be okay. Could be stricter in capital cities though.
  8. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    if your friend can keep up with cars, the police would know there is something wrong.

    Expect your friend to have the book thrown at him sooner rather than later.

  9. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    So if im not using the engine when they "catch me" can they legally do anything? like is it illegal to even have it attach or is it only illegal when in use. Because im guessing if I ever did get fined or anything and it was taken to court and I had research and knew what i was talking about they wouldnt do much if I had it confirmed the engine was not engaged when pulled over. And as for my friend when he goes out around the brisbane area he often goes on the side of the road and use roundabouts etc at a decent speed often keeping up or overtaking cars. I usually keep to the path or gravel/grass and only do about 20 or 30. Ironically the one time i was actually going fast was today down a very long path on the opposite side to my cross country and a police car saw me doing about 40 or 50 and went to go around the roundabout to pull me over but knowing the area and it being near my house i pulled into a nature walk and went through there and back to my house without getting caught. The reason i was going so fast was because there was no one at all on the path and it is a very long and straight stretch.
  10. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    This is the way things work: I have a friend who is a Victorian Police Officer.
    He said the police can give you a ticket for anything and it's then up to the individual if they want to challenge the ticket.

    What this means is that you have to challenge the ticket "at your legal expense" and if found innocent, the police have to pay your legal costs.
    Remember that the legal department of the Victoria Police is backed by the Victorian tax payer and they have access to and can use limitless tax payer funds.
    Even if you win your case, the police can easily appeal the decision if they feel they may be able to find a legal loophole, or if some government official wants to turn the case into a political staging post for his/her political career.

    If the police want to nail your arse to the wall, there are a myriad of methods that can be slapped upon you, particularly if you're 16 years of age and wanting to go for your drivers licence.
    Any driving related charges can affect the length of your probationary period or delay the date you can apply for a drivers licence, or both.

    So basically, all of us in Australia are taking our chances.

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  11. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    The only way you can be safe from getting traffic related charges slapped upon you are to carry manufacturers documentation that proves your motorised bicycle engine complies with the rules set out by the traffic authority (being Vicroads if in Victoria).

    I've asked the retailer in my area who sells Chinese motorised bicycle kits to give me manufacturers documentation that states the engine complies with the 200 watt ruling.
    They just looked at me and laughed!

  12. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    Is it actually legal to have the motor attached but not use it though?

    e.g. A relative has private land and when there i use the motor but at home i only even pedal.
  13. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    As far as i understand, you can do whatever you want on private land.

    I understand the thrust of your arguement - if the engine isn't operating, is the motorised bicycle classified as a normal pedal bicycle.

    I'm not sure - i think the police would say that the bicycle had an engine outside of specifications listed by Vicroads, even if the engine is not operating.

    They could make a case by saying a motorbike (solo vehicle) is still classified as a motorbike and needs to be operated withing the traffic code, even if the engine is not running.
    The example i could use would be if a person was able to run alongside a motorbike on a walking path pushing it faster than 20 kilometers per hour - it's still a motorbike with all the functionality of a motorbike and motor vehicles are not allowed on walking paths.

    The debate is fruitless though as the police can slap whatever traffic infringements they want on you, even if not lawful.
    It's up to the person involved to get legal representation at their own expense to fight the charges with no guarantee of winning on all counts.

    It comes back to the point that in Australia, we take our chances on a motorised bicycle.

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  14. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Yes, you can have a motor or engine attached to a bicycle if it makes 200 watts or less.
    It's perfectly legal and this information is stipulated in the Vicroads rule book.

    If you can get manufacturers information stating in writing and by means of product technicial specifications that the motor or engine produces not more than 200 watts, there is absolutely nothing the police can do about it, and if they issue a traffic infringement, you would immediately book an appointment with your solicitor and take the matter to court.
    You would win the case and police would have to pay legal costs and nullify the infringement notice.

    You may have to be careful though because in Victoria, the police could impound the vehice for 24 hours as a first offence if they want to use the anti-hooning legislation against you (travelling at more than 20 kilometers per hour on a motorised bicycle) and when the vehicle is impounded they could have a dyno check performed on the engine.
    This would kill any chances of you making a strong case, even with manufactures information.

    I say again - in Australia, all of us who ride a motorised bicycle that's not backed by manufacturer information stating the legality of engine output are taking our chances, and even with proper documentation, the police could impound your bicycle using anti-hooning legislation.

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  15. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    The engine is 66cc which is about 20x the 200wat limit and I live in queensland where internal combustion engines are 100% illegal unless on privateland. The main point i was hoping for was if pulled and the engine is not running I can simply say im using it as a bicycle and the engine is not engaged which is why I need to find out the information of if in queensland a bicycle with a motor is being used without the engine engaged is it still a bicycle. With me being under 18 would I get free legal representation because my parents would not be happy with me at all if it brought them into it and especially at their expense.
  16. reddbak

    reddbak Guest

    Legality of 2stroke engine

    It is illegal in all states of Australia to operate a normally foot or pedal-powered vehicle fitted with an internal combustion motor on a public thoroughfare. This is regardless of wattage. :rolleyes7:

    edit: it is illegal in some states of Australia.

    Click here for the official statement 'What is a Bicycle?' from the VicRoads website.:detective:

    It won't matter what excuse you use for the police if pulled over on a public road or bikeway or footpath with a fuel using motor fitted to a scooter or bicycle or tricycle under your control. The only motor that can be legally fitted and used on a public thoroughfare is an electric with a max output of 200watts. This ensures the motor is for pedal assist only (auxillary power) and not the primary power source, which should be the rider.:whistling:

    On the upside however, unless a petrol-powered bicycle is being used as a motor-scooter or ridden in a hoon-like manner, most policemen will not waste time on this issue, especially in the suburbs or regional towns, and that is what we motored-bikers count on. My wife and I have ridden our 2-stroke bikes here in Bundy for 2 years without being hassled by the law.:sweatdrop:
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2010
  17. rooooboy

    rooooboy New Member

    I think you have mis read the vic roads rules, it is perfectly legal to ride a petrol ASSISTED bike in victoria, only if it does no exceed 200watts and he motor is NOT the primary source of operation. so theoretically if you buy a rock solid engine with the compliance plate fitted, its all legal down here. for now anyway.
  18. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Yes, the Rock Solid Engine's 200 watt model is the only compliance listed petrol powered engine that can be fitted to a bicycle, because they back their claim with written documentation.

    Anyway, here are the Vicroads rules:

    It is not a bicycle if:

    * the motor is the primary source of power (this includes electric scooters with pedals that are not built to be propelled primarily by human power), or
    * the motor's power output exceeds 200 watts (whether or not the motor is operating).

    These are considered to be motor vehicles. The rider will be required to hold a motorcycle licence and have the vehicle registered before it can be used on the road network, including footpaths and bicycle paths.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  19. reddbak

    reddbak Guest

    Yah, my bad on that one, just my redneck paranoia showing, have added an 'edit' line.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2010
  20. Dameize

    Dameize New Member

    lol i live in brisbane queensland. Apparently its stricter here :(. Im just dissapointed its still illegal even if im pedeling :(. Today was a great example i was at my uncles house with my other uncle and his wife and my sister, they live at the other end of the suburb about a 20min walk. I was able to use the bike with the engine engaged to safely get from there to my house in under 2 minutes by sticking to the main paths (without any shortcuts). The only "hooning" i did was when going past the bus stop i probably should of slowed down a bit but there was only 1 person sitting down about 3m from the path so i did not bother. I was home atleast 15 minutes before my uncle and sister got back to my house (by foot).

    The bike truly is great and I am loving it for just getting around the suburb locally every now and then. So it would be a shame to be fined or anything.