Be Careful Out There

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by mikem, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. mikem

    mikem Member

    Here's a compilation of videos showing redlight-runners and the accidents they cause. The last video should be a special a reminder for us to be careful out there. Kids ... check with Mom and Dad before watching. (Mod's ... I hesitated to list this thread since this is a family forum. Please don't hesitate to delete it if you think it might be a bit too graphic for our younger viewers.)


    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010

  2. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    no everyone should watch it !!!!

    Have you seen the one from the UK on youtube , Where the teenage girl is on the cell phone and has the wreck... I made my teen watch it...
    it was fake but looked real ... It's hard for the youngsters to understand why us old timers are so paranoid... maybe cause we have seen some stuff !!!!
    Good to remind them every so often... You can't be to careful....
    Man I thought all of those redlight camera's they put up around here were just a scam to generate some cash !!! Well maybe not ????
  3. Chris Crew

    Chris Crew Member

    following too close
    too fast for conditions
    talking on cell phones

    I'll bet one or more were involved in over 50% of the crashes we saw.

    Several of those were gnarly and elicited involuntary explitives when I saw them (particularly the pedestrian accidents)

    be careful ladies and gents
  4. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    I think cell phones probably are the single greatest cause of accidents there is - exceeding drunk driving by a substantial margin.

    Here, the City and the Parish Sheriff's office have begun doing something that is desperately needed everywhere, in my opinion. Quite simple, really - any injury accident they subpoena the cell phone record of the drivers involved. If their phone was in use at the time of the accident, they get charged with reckless endangerment.

    Just that simple, and very, very effective.

    I carry a cell phone - in fact, it is the only phone I have. It goes in my shirt pocket every time I walk out my door. I NEVER answer it if it rings while I am driving, instead I wait until I am stopped, check the call record, and return the call if I think it is needed.

    Oh - I use a headset, always - so even when driving I have the ear bud in place and I could easily enough answer the phone. The problem is, cell phone calls are the single greatest distraction from safe driving that there is - all of the studies say it is even worse than two kids in the backseat fighting.
  5. mikem

    mikem Member

    Thanks Simple ... some great advice.
  6. PatrickW

    PatrickW Staff Member

    A result, obvious to some, and oblivious to others, is that red light cameras help curb people running red lights and causing a collision...they do, of course, generate revenue. The not-so-obvious result is that some guy in the front of the line, sees the light turn amber, or ready to turn (who have plenty of time to make it thru the intersection) anchors it out unexpectedly, and "Wham, Bam," you have a 2, 3, or 4 car rear-ender...a 'four banger', if you will.) All could have been prevented if the first or second guy had not been so darned paranoid about a camera ticket. The ironic thing about 'camera intersections', is that the majority of them do not have cameras...they are far too expensive to really install, maintain, and have monitored. I have a suspicion that far more property damage, back, and neck injuries are caused by the 'cameras' than if they were not there, and a marked police care was there and VISIBLE as a deterrent.
  7. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Not too mention, a clapped out patrol car with a mannequin in uniform at the wheel "parked" at such locations and periodically moved would actually be cheaper than the cameras. Shuffle them around, and no on can ever be sure if it is the dummy in that car, or a "dummy" who munches donuts. The deterrent effect would be wonderful.
  8. PatrickW

    PatrickW Staff Member

    S.S. ...Once again I totally agree. Collier County Fl, largest county east of the Mississippi in area with fewest police presence, uses them extensively. There is one stretch of very dangerous roadway, where people have a penchant for crossing the double yellow line and passing at a very high speed over a two lane overpass on the way to and from work. It is blind. There is always a squad car with dark windows parked on each side of the overpass...about i, 2, 3, 4 times a week, and sometimes on sundays, they replace these 'dummy' cars with real manned cars...nobody knows which days. And they don't eat donuts...they chey chew up and spit out violators and their licenses. No revenue thing involved...since they started this. There have only been 'ZERO' head on collisions. Not bad 'Serviving and Protecting' (the idiots from each other.)
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  9. will_start

    will_start Member

    that was sick
    leaner drivers should have to watch this...

    I've been told I'm a Nanna driver, especially in the wet.

    Brakes are useless against lots of water...
  10. arkives1

    arkives1 Member

    Sadly red light cameras may start out as enforcement tools but end up as cash cows. Several studies have found that in many areas the 'yellow' time was shortened to generate more violations. Other studies have shown that simply extending the yellow time by one or two seconds has more accident prevention effectiveness than cams. Idiots who run lights are not paying attention so would likely be oblivious to the cam anyway. If he knows it's there he'd be more attentive of course. Attempts to install them here have been rejected by voters everytime. I learned that the cameras are not owned or manned by the municipality, they are owned and manned by a private contractor who shares the revenue. Motive for shorter yellow to generate violations is profit. This is not small change, some cities generate millions in revenue with cams.
    I agree that the cams can cause panic stops resulting in multiple car rear enders...studies have shown that too.
  11. PatrickW

    PatrickW Staff Member

    Red Light Cameras...

    One more thought lest I go into a rant, here. <G> I believe that this whole 'red light cam' business is one of those projects that will look excellent on the drawing board; however, when the cameras are put into full practice, they will flash (if you will) and go down in flames. It will take the same path to utter failure (cash cow or not) as did the "Stranger Danger" Campaign. (I can hear my e-mail box filling up already.)

    "Stranger Danger" was a failure?! Yes, if you will remember with me, it was a total failure...mostly because folks did not take into account the unperceived facts. Yes, it had a catchy phrase that children could say and everyone understood; it had good intentions; but it was built upon poor or lacking intelligence and intuition. Sure, teach your children to yell 'Stranger Danger', and yell it good and loud as they run away...but, the stranger just may be there to help. (Hey! Stop Kid! You're gonna run into an open well!) Sponge Bob Square Pants couldn't have helped him, but maybe the 'dangerous stranger' with the hardhat could have. Children need to be taught how to use good common sense and to tell good from evil, and "just what isn't quite right with this situation?" Children perceive a lot more about folk's character and intentions than most adults give them credit. Look at the way they know how and when to exactly push your buttons...or the teacher's...or dad's.

    Finally, the statistics are: 37% of children molested were victims of an immediate family member (mom, dad, sibling); 59% of children molested were victims of extended family members and acquaintances (uncle, aunt, cousin, the nice guy next door, the teacher); while, only 7% of children molested were victims of totally 'Dangerous Strangers' (the guy in the bushes, the guy hiding in a van, the guy in the darkened doorway.

    So, I am of the opinion, that the answers to both the Red Light problem, and the Child Predator problem, (among many other problems as diverse as they may seem) rests in Information, Education, and a Strong, Visible Law Enforcement Presence...Not in some sort of trickery, goofy gadgetry, or catchy phrases.

    Thank you for reading.

  12. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Over the course of 10+ years of working as an adjunct therapist on a volunteer basis in a group therapy practice I spent over 4,000 hours in actual group settings and perhaps twice that in education and consultation. Every minute of that time was focused on two major "patient" groups - anger management patients (perhaps 10%) and sex offenders (the other 90+%). Every single one of those persons fell into one of 3 categories 1) self-referrals (less than 1%); 2) Court diversionary sentencings (probation requiring therapeutic attendance and progress)(about 90%); and 3) post incarceration referrals - persons required to attend as a part of a parole agreement.

    I agree with PatrickW above, from an informed base, as regards the "Stranger! Danger!" campaign. It was an utter waste of resources, because over 90% of all molestation is done by persons who are not strangers at all.

    One question I often get is "Why volunteer! Those people are beyond help!" To which I answer - Nonsense. Education and training can teach any person who is willing to learn to recognize their own internal thinking errors, to learn to re-direct thought processes, and to identify for themselves those factors in situations which increase their risk of acting out. One of the greatest risk factors is alcohol, and substance abuse.

    As much as most loathe such persons (a perfectly understandable reaction), they are in fact people, and few people indeed can comprehend the degree of self-loathing amongst them. They despise themselves and their own actions far more than you ever could, and the great majority will work ****ed hard at any program of therapy that offers them a way out of that loop. Not too mention that everyone is shaped by their childhood experiences, and almost all such offenders were themselves victims as children.

    The only ones for which I see no hope of redemption are the violent rapists - and there is less hope for a rapist of adults than of children. They cannot be reformed, they cannot be controlled save by incarceration, and they cannot learn to control themselves.
  13. will_start

    will_start Member

    A camera on every corner ??

    OK, I can tie the concept of kids and speed cameras together. We have variable speed cameras at just about every school in NSW, where the speed limit changes during peak school hours. One near me is on a highway. You have to do 40km/hr from 8-9:30am
    and 2:30-4pm. My Ex-GF got caught doing 52k/hr at 2:32pm because her clock was 10 mins out. Now they have a flashing light. The speed can drop from 60, 70 or 80km/hr down to 40km/hr.

    Does wonder's for trafiic congestion.

    We also have red-light cameras at known black-spots. IE black = death.

    I went seearching for an article that said some speed cameras
    clock up to $500,000 AU per year for local councils. Thats alot of money when they have up to 10-20 cameras in their region.

    Here's one recent article.

    We Oz people say we have a Nanny State in Australia...wonder why ??

    Also mobile and hidden police cameras are all over the place.
    End result, you spend more time watching your speedo, than watching the traffic around you.

    Is that a net safety result ??
  14. PatrickW

    PatrickW Staff Member

    On Police Presence, Traffic Gadgets, Etc...

    As I have been reading this thread, and the others about bike shops hating us, and other people not giving us our just deserts or legal rights of way, I have a desire to comment.

    Above all, remember guys...the roadway is no place to attempt to litigate the laws. Do not let yourself get dragged into a 'heated discussion' on the tarmac or shoulder of the road, no matter how right or wrong you may be. There is no way you can win at that moment. At the least, you will end up talking yourself into a ‘Contempt of Cop’ citation. Remember, he/she knows the Motor Vehicle Code a lot better than you do. Even if you are an attorney, you should know what they say about someone trying to be your own defense...”You will have a fool for a client, and an idiot for a Lawyer.” Be smart and don’t talk yourself into a citation. Every time that a policeman pulls someone over, he usually has the discretion to give you a verbal warning, written warning, a citation, or escalate to whatever level you want to take it. And he can ‘out-escalate’ you every time.

    As it has been pointed out numerous times here, by numerous guys who know, we usually get the attitude we walk in with. In Florida, and most of the other states, we are riding “a bicycle with a small motor attached”, not a motor scooter, moped, motorcycle, or anything else. And it would to the benefit of each of us, and each of the rest of us, if we didn’t go bragging about how much HP, Torque or Speed we can muster-up except among the MB community where we can blow as much smoke as you want. At least not at this stage of the game, anyway.

    We are virtual nubies to most people. We all need to do our part in helping that other folks perceive us for what we really are...good, clean guys out to have fun on our Motorized Bicycles, rather than some Pee Wee Marlon Brandos trying to be one of the Wild Ones...Out to be a problem. That sort of attitude won’t help the cause...Never did; Never Will.

    I hope I don’t seem too far out in left field, here, but that’s my philosophy on the cause...I sincerely hope it reflects others’.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  15. will_start

    will_start Member

    You seem right on the topic, well said, well analysed.
    Respect and good attitude will take us a long way.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  16. Turtle Tedd

    Turtle Tedd Member

    Yes..that pretty much says it.
  17. arkives1

    arkives1 Member

    I agree with you Ted. These fellas have said it and said it very well indeed. I'll bet that the vast majority of members here will agree with this. One of the things that disturbs me is our seemingly lost civility to each other. Aggressive driving is just one manifestation. Here in Milwaukee, and I suppose most other areas of the country, we have a problem with "Boomers"
    Very loud, heavy on the bass car stereos. I see it as an act of aggression because of its "in your face" demand for attention. Local noise pollution statutes have help but haven't really done a great deal. I always thought going after the user coupled with banning the sale and use of these powerful amps would be a better plan. After all we control the sale of alcohol, tobacco, medications, drugs, guns, explosives, even pepper spray. I wonder if this aggressiveness is a reflection of a society that is becoming so stressful that we act out in different ways. It's probably the same percentage of miscreants we've always had. I'm curious about others thoughts on the loud music and if its a problem worldwide? I'm getting off topic here. Thanks for the great information and insight guys.