Before I buy

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by Andy h, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    As I stated in my orig post in the introduction thread I live in El Paso and will be buying a ht motor. I will get to tinker and teach a 10 year old alittle about engines (I hope).

    I have been doing the research and concluded that no matter which ht motor you choose there will always be unique problems associated with YOuR motor that will be just as unique as everyone else's motor. The biggest issue is expecting something that does not require work / abit of fun to run.

    If looking for a primary means of transportation I think I would go with a friction drive four stroke. What I want is something a ten year old can help take apart with just enough parts (with help) to understand how it runs.

    That beings said I've stopped looking for the best, and now shifted my searching towards someone that may visually inspect a motor before shipping it to me. If that's to hard to find, someone that will at least replace a piece if it arrives busted.

    What makes it so hard to buy a motor kit is how easy it is to find someone displeased and not enough good happy motor arrivial stories. Very few people take the time to post a happy story, but if they are mad you get to hear every detail why :)

    Thanks to Alabama fisherman for the nice write up on what to do with a new motor. I know now the least of the fun we are going to have. Also that I need a lbs per inch torque wrench.

    I don't know my laws yet but this is about the build not the ride. There are plenty of back desert roads that he can ride a throttled back motor bike on while supervised.

    Maybe I get a few spins also :grin5:

    I'll let everyone know who I go with for the motor. I don't expect it to be eBay. info / flames is always appreciated.


  2. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    Have bought a number of HT's (66cc). First and LAST was from luckyearlybird/BGF (they are related)..All the others I've bought from powerking on Ebay. Have not had any problems out of them...that's after I do the mods. powerking goes by something else as a vendor. If I can find them, they will also be the one I buy from again. Goes by powerkingshop, they don't list the HT's, and I'm wondering if they will again?
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  3. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    Thanks for the reply. I ruled out BGF already. I wanted to stay away from eBay, but I guess I cannot say I properly researched unless I do.
  4. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    Well made a lot of phone calls and no one actually looks into the engine box to make sure everything is there/not busted to pieces. Still looking.
  5. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    um. look at it this way. youre the importer. you import 10000 a month. each one makes you a profit of 10 dollars. it takes 1.5 hours to properly inspect each box. then you have to re box them. suddenly, your profit margin is -10 dollars.

    would you inspect them?

    they are cheap POS! if youre so concerned, buy two!

    (p.s. i would never ever touch a friction drive again...especially if i relied on it daily, as i do with my ht! its really fun(NOT!) pedalling a bike up a 5km hill in pouring rain with this engine screaming away thats doing nothing more than chewing your tyre up!)
  6. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    oh, and if you have to replace one or two for warranty reasons out of that 10000 a month? its still a lot cheaper than inspecting the POS!
  7. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    Yeah I don't know what I was thinking. It's just silly to take the time to make sure everything is there. It makes tons more sense to spend twice the time and money to just send replacements. You just inconvenience the buyer.

    I would never make it in business.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  8. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    why rule out e-bay vendors?
    E-bay vendors sell the exact same engine as big name vendors at a fraction of the price.
    The customer service may not be the best with e-bay vendors, but if you know what you're doing, you won't need their assistance anyway.
    The only downside is if you buy an engine and it's a lemon, chances are it will be tough to get an e-bay vendor to replace it for free.
    every vendor sells lemons once in awhile, but if you can buy an engine for $150.00 v.s. $250.00, and you get a good strong one, you just saved yourself $100.00.
    I have bought 4 engine kits over a period of a year from bgf, and every one of them has been perfect, all 4 of them run like tops.
    It's not the vendor that assembles the engines, the vendors are just the middle men. they import the engines in boxes, turn them around and re-sell them for a profit.
    if you buy one that doesn't run or is damaged, they should replace it for free(if i was an e-bay vendor, that's what i would do because this kind of thing can mean a huge gain in business).
    but a lot of big companies and even e-bay vendors don't care about their customers. all they think about is the money,so a lot of them will never replace a bad engine for free.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  9. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    time is money. every minute wasted is another dollar down the drain.

    sounds nice, this inspecting does, from the comfort of your chair.

    get out there and start your own business importing them if you think its so easy :)

    now, if they were guitars with pricetags of $3000+, id expect them to be polished, set up correctly and perfect from the second i lay down the cash.

    they arent. they are smelly noisy dirty engines, that run fine if YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

    strange isnt it, that the attitude when i used to work at a hardware store was..." his cheap chinese compressor blew up? still in warranty? chuck it in the bin and give him a new one! at $99, its just not worth looking at, let alone sending anywhere to get repaired!"

    the guy could have very easily repaired the leaky thread himself, but its easier to get it replaced, isnt it?

    but the hardware store never went broke, despite not opening boxes and checking that what was inside worked properly, wasnt broken or badly assembled. (there was a veeeery large pile of returned items)

    do you go to the supermarket and expect your breakfast cereal to be opened and inspected?

    and what happens if you write to the company and tell em you found something in your cheerios? (that werent opened and inspected! eeeek!) they send you a freaking carton or two!

    still so much easier to absorb the one or two failures than try and prevent all of them!

    but, anyways. standard business practises obviously arent what you desire, so good luck searching :)

    ps, ill sell you a genuine INSPECTED ht for $450. if it breaks on you though, its the installers fault! :)
  10. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    I may not have ruled bgf out so easily with such a nice review. There were similar reviews but they were at least a year old most older. Newer reviews from another forum didn't paint a very nice picture and those posts were recent.

    I ordered two motors from two different importers. One said they would make sure everything was there for me and talked about their warrenty. The other said if anything is damaged to let them know and they will gladly replace.

    When they arrive I will post the review under the vendors section.
  11. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    yeah i used to work at a HUGE, well known office supply mail order warehouse back in the late 80's.
    Every time someone sent something back (either we sent the wrong item, it was broken, missing peices or whatever) it immidiatly went in the dumpster and replaced for free.
    Their theory was that it would cost them more money to re-stock the items, return them to the original mfg. for a replacement, or get the missing peices than it would to just throw it away. The dumpsters there were literally full to the top every day of good, useable office products. They used to let us rummage through the dumpsters if we wanted to.

    so figure in the cost to inspect each and every engine kit thouroughly before sending it out. say it takes 30 minutes to fully inspect each kit and you pay a person working for you $15.00 an hour. That's $30.00 for every 2 engine inspections, which cuts into your profit margin majorly. When you are making $10.00 - $15.00 on each engine you sell, you would automatically be in the hole after inspecting one of them.
    it's much easier and cheaper to just take them in, turn around and send them right back out and make your $10.00 - $15.00 profit per engine.
    if you send one kit out that has a bad engine, simply have the customer send the engine back(he pays shipping) and then send him another one the same day that you receive the bad one from the customer (vendor pays return shipping to keep the customer happy). so the vendor may lose the shipping cost, but this customer will be a repeat customer because it basically cost him nothing to get another brand new engine. The stipulation would be that the customer would have say 30 days to return a kit with a bad engine. (that's how i would do it anyway)
    if a customer buys a kit with missing or broken parts, I woudl just have the customer do the same thing. send the broken part in and then supply him with a free replacement (with the shipping done the same way as with the engine). but, the customer would have say 10 days to return a part that was broken when he opened the box.
    Missing parts could be a hard thing to deal with because as the vendor, how do you know for sure that a part was actually missing from the kit?
    You could trust the customer, or you could think that you're being scammed.
    But think about much do the misc. parts for an engine kit really cost?
    They can't be that much, and if a guy complains that he got a kit that's missing the carb for example...send him a new one for free. They can't cost a vedor more than $5.00 because they can be bought on e-bay from these vendors for like $12.00. a vendor should have a few kits set aside just to rob parts from to replace broken or missing parts to customers (in my opinion).
    The thing is to beleive your customers and try to trust what they are saying is true. Make them happy and make returns/replacements a simple really isn't that hard to do.
    Doing things this way will cut into your profit margin, but you have to be willing to absorb it and move on.
    If you (as a vendor) want repeat customers, this is how it has to be done.
    The best form of advertizing is word of mouth...and trust me when people reccomend a specific vendor to someone else, it's because they were taken care of very well.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  12. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    my latest offering from fleabay arrived today. at 150 dollars with no shipping fee, i cant complain that it took almost 6 weeks(actually less than what they said it would)to get here.

    anything missing? anything broken? no :) any complaints? nope.

    and its got different features to all the others ive got...must be using a different mold pattern in that factory. i much prefer the exhaust port on this one. doesnt have a huge taper in it... and the big fat slant head. fins are wider, thinner... cheering :)

    still has that bottom fin bent on the cylinder which they all seem to have... ever noticed that? been through a few now, and they all have it!

    its painted! yik! wait! thats a complaint! :jester:

    oh yeah. no manual. but who needs it? and i know to check the key on the crank gear first now...
  13. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    Who did you go through? Didn't see any new posts in vendors. What made me nervous about eBay was if it was missing something it would take another 6-8 weeks to get it.

    With my luck I didn't want to take that chance.
  14. TREEWK

    TREEWK Member

    All My 112 Ebay Purchases Have Been Good. Paypal Does Give You Some Options. It Appears To Me That Ebay Sellers Are Very Concerned About Their Ratings/scores. If They Have Too Much Trouble, I Think Ebay Can Bar Them From Ebay. With Paypal You Don`t Have To Worry About Your Money.

    I Have Paid For Items With Paypal Out Side Of Ebay, Then You Don`t Have Ebay Support. Also When You Pay With Paypal No One Else Has Your Payment Info., You Don`t Have To Fill It Out Every Time.

    Just My 2 Cents.

    Have Also Made Many Purchases From Forum Sellers With No Problems. This Spring I Got Hit With $800. Debit Card Theft, The Bank Took Care Of It And Issued A New Card. Have No Idea Who Or Where. I Do Not Think It Came From Ebay Or Mab Parts Sellers, As They Were Much Older Transactions.

  15. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    Some coworkers of mine went through eBay claims service. It's safe money wise. There is a policy that the seller gets to make it right first that I'm all for.

    The only reason i didn't use it is if there is a problem again there are weeks between shipping.
  16. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    ahhhh, Vpowerhk or summink.

    theres a dirty stinking big complaint now! its an 80cc, i ordered 50!

  17. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    Got the motor from Liked their website and they answered their 800 number every time I called. Nothing broke or missing that I can tell.

    <a href="" title="IMAG0135 by ahlebik, on Flickr"><img src="" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0135"></a>

    <a href="" title="IMAG0136 by ahlebik, on Flickr"><img src="" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0136"></a>

    <a href="" title="IMAG0138 by ahlebik, on Flickr"><img src="" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0138"></a>

    When I get back from albuquerque will get to playing abit.
  18. Andy h

    Andy h New Member

    New Hardware

    Replaced all Studs and hardware. Kept all original gaskets but will keep a eye on them. What I did not do is replace all hardware in the bags yet... Guess ill have to make another trip sometime when I get that far. I have yet to do any work on the carb.

    <a href="" title="IMAG0147 by ahlebik, on Flickr"><img src="" width="500" height="299" alt="IMAG0147"></a>

    Wanted to replace the plug wire/head but after cranking on it I guess it doesn't unscrew?

    <a href="" title="IMAG0148 by ahlebik, on Flickr"><img src="" width="640" height="383" alt="IMAG0148"></a>