Can you still use your shifters?

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I see a lot of support for a shifter kit but if the bike had 21 speeds with a triple front chainring, no I don't see how a HT engine could be used with a shifter kit and the all the gears the bike had originally.

GEBE 'rack mount' engine kits look more and more like the viable alternative. The China Girl engine and shifter kit add how much extra weight, in addition to the steel shelled peanut tank?

It's rapidly gaining weight and pedaling ergonomics are going away. Let's also remember that with the shifter kit comes the fact that you have to disengage the clutch when you pedal while the engine is shut off, there is considerable drag in this. I'll wager it's close to the drag of my DIY friction drive engaged to the tire with the engine off.
Well first off I don't think the OP is wanting a shifter bike. I was just touching on the benefits. If he were though the 7 speeds that he would get would be more than enough to put a smile on his face while the rear derailleur held up, and no the pedaling is no where near what yours is with the fric. drive motor off and engaged as with the clutch pulled in you gave no compression to fight. The gearing makes the extra drag easily manageable.
 
Well first off I don't think the OP is wanting a shifter bike. I was just touching on the benefits. If he were though the 7 speeds that he would get would be more than enough to put a smile on his face while the rear derailleur held up, and no the pedaling is no where near what yours is with the fric. drive motor off and engaged as with the clutch pulled in you gave no compression to fight. The gearing makes the extra drag easily manageable.

My system is somewhat unique as it's DIY, it uses a large contact patch 'drum' engaged with the tire that doesn't add a lot of drag like the Stanton.

a10258559-241-DSC00062.JPG
 
I don't see how a HT engine could be used with a shifter kit and the all the gears the bike had originally
A 3x8 shifter has been done before. Read Fabian's posts.

The China Girl engine and shifter kit add how much extra weight
Yeah the engine is a bit heavy but at least it's in the centre of the frame. The SBP Shift Kit is heavy too but it adds to the bike's versatility and off road capability. It could be made lighter of course.

with the shifter kit comes the fact that you have to disengage the clutch when you pedal while the engine is shut off, there is considerable drag in this.
I'm sure it isn't much worse than with the standard (single motor speed) build. You would have an extra shaft to spin and two short chains instead of one long chain. The chains on either type of build can be much lighter than the ones supplied with the kit.

The best thing about the SBP Shift Kit for a build that is to be used..
without the motor at times
.. is that if you use the SBP right side tensioner it should be possible to remove the middle chain without having to split it. It would take seconds to convert to non motorised, road legal everywhere, and zero added drag. :D

That was actually my original plan but it costs a few pennies to set that up so that build is being (eternally) postponed. :oops:


P. S. You don't need to use the steel tank from the kit. :)
 
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My system is somewhat unique as it's DIY, it uses a large contact patch 'drum' engaged with the tire that doesn't add a lot of drag like the Stanton.

a10258559-241-DSC00062.JPG
I don't see a front derailleur and just a single pedal sprocket so why do even care?
I have not seen the OP since this his original post he only had one post, this new topic.
 
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Build smart if you want years of riding pleasure.

SA 5-speed internal shifter.

2_GT2-10G-53-DoneR-1280.jpg


Man the sucker rocked so fast it needed dual disc brakes ;-}
 
For now yeah it's a single speed, until I can find a classic OEM Suntour 14-28 5 speed freewheel.
Why would you continue to look for derailleur parts when an internal 5 -speed hub shifter is so much better with JS power?

Fito3DoneRrear.jpg


You can pedal fine with engine off and help it when it's running, once you hit ~30mph or so your legs don't help much.
 
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An extra 10% power will make a difference to your speed, that's why we do things like port work and tuned pipes.

1x drivetrains do drop chains. This lead to the invention of the chain devices like Dr Crud, Blackspire, MRP which some still use, although now we have the clutched derailleur and the narrow wide chain ring so dropped chains on 1x are now less of a problem..
And we do still have the dual chain devices for the lower part of the chain on dual chainring mountain bikes.

The OP stated very clearly that he wants to still be able to use his mountain bike with full functionality under pedal power just like a normal mountain bike.
"I'm looking to set it up on a mountain bike, but I would still like to use it without the motor at times. I'm wanting to keep my 21 speed twist shifters. Can someone point me towards some info on how to achieve this?"

The question you have to ask yourself is if the act of creating that extra 10% power cancels itself out in other ways. Bear in mind a couple of things. We know that adding small ammounts of power has diminishing returns because aerodynamic drag increases in a nasty way. The increase in drag from say, 15mph to 20 mph is more than it was from 10 to 15, and so on.

Now remember we suffer this effect much more than we're used to thinking about, because a bike with a rider is just about the least aerodynamic thing. A brick with rounded edges would do better.

Now start pedaling fast, and suddenly that extremely unaerodynamic object has gotten even worse. It won't even stay the same shape, so the drag goes crazy. If you ever watch cycling on TV when they're going down a mountain, you'll notice they stop pedaling and put their feet level at 9 and 3 on the crank. Their speed is entirely within their gear range, but they stop anyway, because the aerodynamics mean powering themselves would be slower than just tucking in and letting gravity do the work.

The top speed of a decent ported out motor with the vibration taken care of is what, 40mph according to your own figures? That's well in the speed range where trying to assist the engine is just pointless behavior.

As for chains dropping on a 1x, I have to say that yeah sometimes they drop, and sometimes wheels fall off too. I don't have special wheel-holder oners though because I know that'd be an exceptional situation. Tighten your wheelnuts, make sure your chainring isn't bent and stop worrying.
 
The question you have to ask yourself is if the act of creating that extra 10% power cancels itself out in other ways. Bear in mind a couple of things. We know that adding small ammounts of power has diminishing returns because aerodynamic drag increases in a nasty way. The increase in drag from say, 15mph to 20 mph is more than it was from 10 to 15, and so on.

Now remember we suffer this effect much more than we're used to thinking about, because a bike with a rider is just about the least aerodynamic thing. A brick with rounded edges would do better.

Now start pedaling fast, and suddenly that extremely unaerodynamic object has gotten even worse. It won't even stay the same shape, so the drag goes crazy. If you ever watch cycling on TV when they're going down a mountain, you'll notice they stop pedaling and put their feet level at 9 and 3 on the crank. Their speed is entirely within their gear range, but they stop anyway, because the aerodynamics mean powering themselves would be slower than just tucking in and letting gravity do the work.

The top speed of a decent ported out motor with the vibration taken care of is what, 40mph according to your own figures? That's well in the speed range where trying to assist the engine is just pointless behavior.

As for chains dropping on a 1x, I have to say that yeah sometimes they drop, and sometimes wheels fall off too. I don't have special wheel-holder oners though because I know that'd be an exceptional situation. Tighten your wheelnuts, make sure your chainring isn't bent and stop worrying.
Well he's not worried about it because he's not riding a single speed, and I've seen more chains drop than wheels falling off than I could imagine, which come to think of it I've never (personally) witnessed a wheel just jumping off a bike.

An extra 10% power doesn't cancel itself out, it gives 10% more power which let's you go faster untill the new level of resistance zeros out the forces involved, regardless if it was a 10% or just .1% increase in speed it can't simply be a 0% increase and certainly not going to be a decrease.

You seem to presume anyone with an engine is going to use it at its maximum output, if you look at the electric bike world it's almost the opposite trend, where you are actually assisting the motor or depending on how you look at it the engine is assisting you. The point is that you don't depend on the motor as the sole power source and so you just don't think of it like that. Fury just wants to demonstrate that (since these are f***ing bicycles after all) you can keep a system that will let you actively assist an engine in propulsion, even if it rounds in its power at 40mph on a single gear drive. The more calories he burns the less fuel spent, nothing wrong with that.

Using gravity as part of your argument is pretty much the same as saying 'Hey, you got a motor to accelerate, why pedal at all?!' It doesn't tie in well with your aerodynamics argument since those people don't even have an engine to accelerate themselves along with their legs, and since using their legs would provide an equal or lower return to just letting gravity do the job they obviously let gravity do the job! You as a person can more or less achieve the speeds gravity will take you to, and since the engine can outperform both you and gravity that means that, especially on level ground, there is an advantage to pedaling with the motor.

To put it quite plainly, you + motor always = more power than just motor. You can't argue against that. Guys just pedaling have to consider that they can and should reserve energy when possible, with a motor the need to prevent yourself from over exertion isn't there, and chances of it are highly reduced.

You have to ask yourself why you are arguing against a 10% power increase just for the sake of it.
 
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To put it quite plainly, you + motor always = more power than just motor. You can't argue against that. Guys just pedaling have to consider that they can and should reserve energy when possible, with a motor the need to prevent yourself from over exertion isn't there, and chances of it are highly reduced.

You have to ask yourself why you are arguing against a 10% power increase just for the sake of it.
10% is a lot of power increase. Cool ;-}
 
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