China doll vs dirt bike engine vs predator 212

As to @ImpulseRocket response, I did already mention in the original post that it's not really legal to call it a motorized bicycle but you could try to get it registered, but then at that point an enduro makes a lot more sense to get or any street legal bike. It'll cost less money if you already have a bicycle and just stick on some mirrors, headlights, and a license plate with whatever engine you pick to get to far places or generally drive safer where there's no sidewalks and high speed limits (even where I live which is 10-30 miles from where the majority of the businesses are at)

It makes a lot more sense to get a engine thats made for dirtbikes because you can limit yourself to how you handle your bike, just like with cars you wouldn't step on the throttle even if you have a hellcat but I'd still only do this on sturdy frames and opt for wheels with bigger hubs and spokes and a fat tire preferably, which could be already done with a pretty decent mountain bike which many are designed to handle high impact. You can get hydraulic brakes for pretty cheap which is sufficient for most roads and you can also upgrade your suspension, there's people who take mountain bikes and go hurling down a mountain doing jumps so for high speed I wouldn't say it would be a concern, must make sure your hub is well, built and opt for bigger tires.

I haven't used a 2 stroke dirtbike but I've used 4 stroke on the road before and as to the 4 strokes there's no such thing, most to not all dirtbikes come with a shifter so you can build up your rpm before you shift, a bicycle will certainly be more lighter than a dirtbike so you should get a nice boost to acceleration, even my mini dirtbike weighs more than my phatmoto but beats my go kart (stage 2) in acceleration, just not in top speed because the predator just does not care what frame it's on. I'd imagine a 2 stroke engine meant for a dirtbike would outdo any Chinadoll but I'd stick to 4 stroke simply for the torque, stock should get you 40s to 50s and 80 or 90s is excessive and illegal to even drive anything at that speed. Just I said "looking for raw performance" but we shouldn't leave out mid to low ranges and I'd rather trade that top speed for torque.

After thinking about it, I'd say the most practical setup if you have some mechanical prowess is a well built mountain bike with the generic 125cc 4 stroke you can easily find for 150 (excluding Chinese websites.) Shouldn't be too expensive to upgrade its parts and stock performance is great, they're meant for mudding so they should be able to tank anything that comes from the road and they should be pretty reliable granted you take care of the fuel. Depending on the state you should be able to spend the extra money to get it registered or if you want to be risky just drive it as is, if you got a regular bicycle or a cheap bicycle I'd say it'd make sense to go with the Chinadoll as you dont want to go at high speeds In the first place or just destroy your frame or really anywhere you'd rather stay at low speeds just go with a chinadoll. Although the chinadoll has potential to even outrun these other engines stock that's not without paying almost double the price of the kit excluding labor. Also with the China doll you'll either be sacrificing high-end for low end performance or vi versa. Really depends on the persons situation, china dols are perfect for the typical consumer who wants something they can slap on their bike to go legally fast but i dont really see a point in spending the money and time to tinker an engine to perfection to go as fast as something else at stock for cheaper, the entire design of the china doll is for long term reliability at low speeds, same situation with the predator and its original honda gx, meant for workloads not rideability. You can make 2 very simple changes to the predator thatll let it gain 25% more performance which should tell you its purpose. If you just want to have fun just take a dirt bike out for a ride, if you want to be able to go to different cities then id say equip a mountain bike with a decent engine and get it registered, if you just want to ride around locally then just get a china doll.
Making sense financially and making actual logical sense from a self-preservation point of view are 2 different arguments. You argue the former, I argue the latter, and with good reason. What's cheaper, a cheap motorcycle or an ER visit with a couple of days in the hospital. I know the answer to that without even having to think about it. My last ER bill was over $10k, and even with insurance I had to pay $2500 of it - and that was 3 hours with no major injuries. Bicycle frames are designed to handle the power of a human (less than 1/2 a HP for the average person), not 20 times the power of a human. 2-4hp from a gas engine is within reasonable limits for most bikes, but even those can cause the tubes and welds to crack and fail, not only from flexing due to weight, but the vibrations.

Not all dirt bike engines have transmissions. the 50-65cc class in particular is usually just a wet clutch drive and a single speed. The KM 50sx and 65sx engines I named are as such.

I've ridden 2 and 4 stroke enduro and dual sport bikes, and still do. Very familiar with both. 4 strokes are much much much better suited for low speed and street riding specifically because the majority of 2 strokes are tuned for peak power output, which means they lack a lot of power under the curve, and tend to make everything up top, thus... ____/ style power curve.

I'm not trying to tell you not to do something, so don't take it as such. Just offering the counter points and wisdom to temper ambition.
 
@Skullcmd What are you trying to get out of a build? And more importantly, what do you have to work with in not only a dollar amount and a due date but also in repair and fabrication skills and tooling?

If you have a mismatched set of box wrenches, a beach cruiser and 400 dollars, that is a different situation from the owner operator of a fab shop wanting a board track tribute with a predator 670 engine. Know what I mean?

Lets start fresh with a concrete goal and a budget. Pictures if you want a tribute or if you are wanting function over form: figures like top speed or fuel economy or total weight and so on. There is tons of information to research and plenty of knowledge from at least some of the forum members. We can point you in a direction, and hopefully it would be the right one.
 
@Skullcmd What are you trying to get out of a build? And more importantly, what do you have to work with in not only a dollar amount and a due date but also in repair and fabrication skills and tooling?

If you have a mismatched set of box wrenches, a beach cruiser and 400 dollars, that is a different situation from the owner operator of a fab shop wanting a board track tribute with a predator 670 engine. Know what I mean?

Lets start fresh with a concrete goal and a budget. Pictures if you want a tribute or if you are wanting function over form: figures like top speed or fuel economy or total weight and so on. There is tons of information to research and plenty of knowledge from at least some of the forum members. We can point you in a direction, and hopefully it would be the right one.
You must also remember where he lives. Even if you have what it takes to build it; your state may not allow it to be legally operated on their public road ways. Even custom motorcycle builders are required to have special licenses in order for their bikes to be street legal.
 
Again, I'm not expecting anyone to take a motorized bicycle on the highway, I'm talking about roads that are up to 50mph which in my case to get around anywhere I have to take those roads. Knowing people make builds that go even faster than 50 I don't see how a 4 stroke dirtbike engine wouldn't be a better option in reliability and performance even with more horse power granted you're safely getting up to speed and not being rough on it. Under my set of laws it would be very easy to argue that my bike fits under the term of motorized scooter and I own a legal llc so if I wanted to go as far as to assign myself a micromobility device then I could just to call it a micromobility device but legally the bike fits the term and you could go as far as removing the pedals to better fit that term. But hey, no one is a lawyer here so I still think it depends on the person's situation on what they want it for and explained in my last post about my conclusion. If you're gonna fit a bike with an engine that clearly won't fit as is then you'll most likely take the liberty to examine everything and make improvements to make your bike safer, but I still suggest starting with a mountain bike to make sure it can handle it, there's ways to counteract vibrations, even the chinadoll has vibrations at topend but you can still counteract via balancing the crank and using rubber where you attach your engine at, on my particular bicycle I use 4 rubber washers between the frame and the engine and the entire bike is made from thick aluminum meant for 4 strokes (phatmoto) so I believe it would better suit a dirtbike engine (4 or 2 stroke), they sell just the frame so you can customize your build entirely to get what you want but I do not have a relative idea of how much that would cost and believe it wouldn't be practical than buying an enduro if you're starting from scratch. This post is entirely about a more practical engine than the China doll which I've again explained what I think is the best situation to use each engine (predator none at all really.) And again, I'm talking about going up to 50 and stated before that I don't think anyone should be going higher than 60, I'm no expert in anything but I've tried my fair share of engines and vehicles (diy and manufactured builds) and done research on improvements to make this assessment. locally is best fit for chinadolls, and trails is a mix between a 4 stroke dirtbike engine or just go crazy and fit a cheap bike with a predator. The very best situation is a person with a welder and mechanical knowledge who wants to use this alternative every day and already has a bicycle is to equip their bike with a capable engine and follow their laws the best they can and later try to get it registered so they can legally go anywhere with it granted if they even could get it registered and ride it before then but I'd say it wouldn't be uncommon if someone is looking for an alternative to their own vehicle but works pretty far away, depending on state they could leverage the benefits of no insurance and possibly even saving on gas. In my case in Florida I would rather prefer to stick with a motorized bicycle so I can go on both sidewalks and the road and stay away from insurance, I haven't had any issues with the police and I still think it would be legally considered a motorized scooter but that's just me. And I think the best stock performing engine for cheap that's also reliable to use is a 4 stroke 125cc dirtbike engine from whichever manufacturer and u can of course both limit yourself and use whichever sprocket to limit the bike to reduce rpm (vibrations) but make it up to a desired speed while giving you the option to make it go fast if you'd like.
 
If you want to keep pace at 50mph it will cost more in time, money and skills than getting your motorcycle license/endorsement and picking up a used small displacement bike. If you can turn a wrench and it wont be your only option for getting to work/school/running errands the chinese dual sports aren't a bad way to go. I would prefer a mid 2000s 250 from the big four for but that's just so you can get professional help when a problem gets more complicated than bleeding brakes or setting valve clearance.
 
If you want to keep pace at 50mph it will cost more in time, money and skills than getting your motorcycle license/endorsement and picking up a used small displacement bike. If you can turn a wrench and it wont be your only option for getting to work/school/running errands the chinese dual sports aren't a bad way to go. I would prefer a mid 2000s 250 from the big four for but that's just so you can get professional help when a problem gets more complicated than bleeding brakes or setting valve clearance.
Motorcycle license costs 200$ and time at least in Florida to get, I haven't been able to find even a moped that isn't close to 1k but unsure about other types of bikes and shipping isn't really going to be cheap nor is anything new than used but getting a manufactured bike is better than a day one if you have the option within your budget
 
Getting adequate brakes for 50mph emergency stops will cost you a lot. Let alone the frame, forks and wheels that can handle that big of a force. By the time you have that, you are at motorcycle weights, and well above motorcycle prices.

Nothing wrong with that, it is your money, your time, your energy and your body. You have complete agency over your own life.

For all projects of any scale, a feasibility study and hard limits on budget and due date are essential. 1 finished project is worth infinitely more than an infinite number of forever projects. All I advise is for you to evaluate and analyse the options. If you have done that, and want it still, then let nothing stop you.
 
Let me put it to you from this perspective. Why would a state require a self-built or manufactured moped to be rigestered, insured, a valid driver's license, have operating equipment, limited to 50cc, and limited to 30 mph on level ground; yet under a different vehicle label would require none of the above mentioned conditions? Some things should simply be common sense. If you must go faster than 20 mph, the legal limit in your state for a self-built electric requiring none of the above conditions, then get a motorcycle.

What we here on the forum have found is members who've lost their driver's license trying to use motorized bicycles as a means of transportation put up the biggest arguments as to why they need a motorized bicycle that exceeds their state's guidelines. The local police may ignore you at 20~30 mph. However, when you get on busy roads doing 50+ mph you're definitely going to be getting some police attention.
 
What we here on the forum have found is members who've lost their driver's license trying to use motorized bicycles as a means of transportation put up the biggest arguments as to why they need a motorized bicycle that exceeds their state's guidelines. The local police may ignore you at 20~30 mph. However, when you get on busy roads doing 50+ mph you're definitely going to be getting some police attention.
Being a retired cop as well as a forum moderator, I can attest to what your saying quite well Jerry.
We get more than our fair share of folks having their licenses pulled usually because of DUI, whether it be booze or drugs, and sometimes for just being a really :poop::poop::poop: driver.

Then they try to "reason" their way around little obstacles, like the motor vehicle law statutes involved that might be "inconvenient" to what they want to do...lol...lol.

When I was a cop, I loved it when people I was arresting would tell me how I was so wrong and wasn't interpreting the law correctly...lol...lol...There was one guy who came into court with his lawyer and he pointed at me saying, "that's the guy who doesn't know the law"...lol...The lawyer recognised me immediately and told his client that I was, THE Lieutenant Police Constable of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and that ALL police powers in the Commonwealth are ALL derived from the Office of the Police Constable of the Commonwealth...lol...lol.

He then explained to him that I had an almost photographic memory of the Annotated Laws of the Commonwealth and he should just plead guilty now and get it over with because he really did not want me to have to go into detail and make his situation even worse than what it already was...lol...That was a fun day...lol.
 
I know something like this is well above your price range but the link is for a brand new one.
If you can find something like an older WR250R for a few grand you will have something bullet proof and reliable provided it was taken care of.

Sure there are a few hoops to jump but you will end up with something fun, easy to ride and legal.

 
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