China doll vs dirt bike engine vs predator 212

Let me put it to you from this perspective. Why would a state require a moped to be rigestered, insured, a valid driver's license, have operating equipment, limited to 50cc, and limited to 30 mph on level ground; yet under a different vehicle label would require none of the above mentioned conditions? Some things should simply be common sense. If you must go faster than 20 mph, the legal limit in your state for a self-built electric requiring none of the above conditions, then get a motorcycle.

What we here on the forum have found is members who've lost their driver's license trying to use motorized bicycles as a means of transportation put up the biggest arguments as to why they need a motorized bicycle that exceeds their state's guidelines. The local police may ignore you at 20~30 mph. However, when you get on busy roads doing 50+ mph you're definitely going to be getting some police attention.
The terms are literally meant to define certain types of vehicles and define whether they're they're subject to requiring license, registration, and or title along with other laws.

MOPED.—Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels, with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the drive system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters. The term does not include an electric bicycle.

It's not a moped because it's manual with both Chinadoll and a dirtbike engines, if you can make it only capable of going 20mph then it's considered a motorized scooter whether you put a massive sprocket or other means of limiting the speed. It may not be a motorcycle because it's capable of human propulsion, although it doesn't specifically exclude a motorized scooter from that term it's more accurate to call it a motorized scooter, if It can go more than 20 then it's a motorcycle as all other definitions don't fit the vehicle. And by all means for myself I can reserve it to be a micromobility device which under my laws a micromobility device includes a motorized scooter.

That wasn't the point I was trying to convey though, again, people have made these things to be able to go 70 mph and you can put on hydraulic breaks with a bigger disc (even weld the disc's on and or opt for thicker ones) on the front and back (150 bucks) which is fully capable of stopping a bicycle at a reasonable rate even with a 8hp dirtbike engine (as I believe.)

The point is for something that's capable now without registration to be able to register it later if needed if you need to go faster than 20 to stay legal, and again I have no idea what's allowed or not for other people but for myself I will continue to use my bike without registration with the argument that's it's a motorized scooter and I will take it to court if I have to, and later I'll get it registered when I decide to put on a dirtbike engine.

None of us are lawyers and even if I'm dead wrong because I was caught speeding or it's simply a motorcycle I'm willing to take the chance as I don't have many other options, i enjoy making something I can use practically for cheap

and as the posts original question was whether something other than the chinadoll would be more practical, a dirt bike engine was my own conclusion because I believe most mountain bikes can handle the forces and quite simply the evidence that many people can design a bicycle (getting parts and labor) to go up to 50mph while spending even more money to go that fast on a chinadoll than a dirtbike engine

(an upwards of 3k, the engine itself being around 400 which a dirtbike engine is 150, 20-50 for suntour forks which are designed to last a lifetime without it exploding, a decent mountain bike frame or bicycle bit more practical if you already have one, and hydralic for 100)

also a build with a phatmoto could be cheap as I have one and I can tell you straight up it has way better build quality than my mini dirtbike which can go 50.
 
Just as a general hint...Most people here, myself included, decided some time ago that when someone is posting a solid line of text with no paragraph breaks and with some of them not even having punctuation points, we just tend not to read them at all anymore.

Even with excellent eyesight, it is difficult to read at best...When you get older and eysight problems begin, it is much worse.

I use to break up these walls of text for people but I have grown tired of that at my age now too, It also doesn't help that it is quite difficult to even try to read it and break it up properly when you have macular degeneration in both eyes, everything is wavy and all over the place as it is and is then just made even worse when it is a solid wall of text to try to contend with.
 
@Skullcmd Damien was a police lieutenant. I'm no lawyer but have been on this forum for 14 years. I've read many Florida heart break stories over the years. Many have tried various arguments such as the self-propelled vs pedal-assist only to lose that argument in court.

Using an eBay engine with a 60t sprocket, then replacing the pedals with foot pegs while staying under 20 mph, then calling it a scooter is clever. Still in your state Florida it isn't legal but in many places the police probably isn't going to bother you as long as you obey all other traffic laws and don't ride on the sidewalks.

In your post you've stated you're going to need to use some roads where the speeds exceed 50 mph. At that speed you're going to need a rear license plate or you're going to get pulled over.
 
Let's also consider that in most states, turning it into a scooter then means it has to be registered and licensed and you as the person riding it will likely need a scooter endorsement or equivalent to operate it on public streets - that includes a 50cc scooter anymore. Not all states, obviously, since it does vary state to state, but a majority of them follow that rough outline. I'm too lazy to look up Florida regulations since I don't live there, nor do I really care. Just bringing up a point for the talking heads.
 
@Skullcmd Damien was a police lieutenant. I'm no lawyer but have been on this forum for 14 years.
Not to mention the fact that in Massachusetts, cops with rank also appear before the courts as police prosecutors from time to time when it comes to traffic and motor vehicle law violations, I prosecuted many, many, times and won pretty much 99% of the time since I could quote which law violations occured chapter and verse by memory...lol.
 
@Skullcmd Damien was a police lieutenant. I'm no lawyer but have been on this forum for 14 years. I've read many Florida heart break stories over the years. Many have tried various arguments such as the self-propelled vs pedal-assist only to lose that argument in court.

Using an eBay engine with a 60t sprocket, then replacing the pedals with foot pegs while staying under 20 mph, then calling it a scooter is clever. Still in your state Florida it isn't legal but in many places the police probably isn't going to bother you as long as you obey all other traffic laws and don't ride on the sidewalks.

In your post you've stated you're going to need to use some roads where the speeds exceed 50 mph. At that speed you're going to need a rear license plate or you're going to get pulled over.
Bicycles are allowed to ride on roads regardless of speed (not highways and sometimes there are bicycle lanes and sidewalks but many don't have that so I'm not stating I absolutely needed to go 50 but would rather prefer to get up to speed to not be in danger.) And I can understand that people prefer not to read an essay and tend to skim over it, I'll try to break up my last post and summarize here

My state laws allow me to use something that's defined as a motorized scooter on roads and sidewalks which I believe I can turn my bike to better fit that descriptions, this is a temporary option for myself until I decide to put on a dirtbike engine and register it.

I understand this isn't the case for most people and my original purpose for this post was to discuss a more practical alternative to the chinadoll that's cheap, better stock performance and reliable for people who use their bike everyday and would opt to be able to use long distance or keep it unregistered and use locally with whatever laws they need to abide by.

I understand that Damien used to be a cop and I'm not denying he understands more than anyone what the laws may be but I dont Think there's a single person who knows what every state law Is and what would be the absolute best for everyone in every state, I'm offering a potentially better alternative than the regular chinadoll.

If you want to use your bike from time to time locally then the chinadoll is the best (it's what it's designed for), if you use it everyday and work quite far then I think a dirtbike engine would be a better suit (if that option is available), if you want to go mudding on a bicycle for whatever reason then a predator would be better (predator is just kina too big for most frames)
 
@Skullcmd Over the last 14 years I've been retired. Meaning I have lots of time on my hands. I've also been on the 2 current motorized bicycle forums and 2 motorized bicycle forums along with a pedal only forum that have shut down. So yes I've actually read the various legal statutes on motorized bicycles and like vehicles along with bicycles in all 48 states. Never read Alaska or Hawaii.

The statutes you're using apply to the rental scooters. As for pedal only bicycles they're considered vehicles and are only restricted from roadways which have minimum speed limits that a bicycle can't maintain. It appears you may also lack some cycling skills which is why you feel you can't operate a slower moving vehicle in traffic. Be sure to watch all 3 parts of the videos.


View: https://youtu.be/ZFjCza5e1kw?si=MoGAueB7mvMbcRG-

It's becoming more and more apparent you don't have a driver's license. So build an electric bicycle and stay under 20 mph until you get your license back. Otherwise, you'd simply build a moped according to DMV procedure RS 68. You'll find building an electric bike to be cheaper than getting citations and going to court.
 
Yes a dirt bike engine works better, but the only motor I would trust on an unmodified bicycle frame is a 50cc 4 stroke engine. Maybe you'll find some inspiration in this thread Thread 'Latest Lunacy--Honda CT70 Clone Build' https://motorbicycling.com/threads/latest-lunacy-honda-ct70-clone-build.36108/

This build uses a straight shaft huasheng and it looks fairly practical provided a proper reduction ratio is used instead of what was used. Thread '49cc 4-Stroke 30 Series Torque Converter Build' https://motorbicycling.com/threads/49cc-4-stroke-30-series-torque-converter-build.67902/

These two builds are very effective yet simple shifter bikes.
Thread 'Strange Brew' https://motorbicycling.com/threads/strange-brew.60263/
Thread 'Really Cheap Trail Rider.' https://motorbicycling.com/threads/really-cheap-trail-rider.58707/
 
@Skullcmd Over the last 14 years I've been retired. Meaning I have lots of time on my hands. I've also been on the 2 current motorized bicycle forums and 2 motorized bicycle forums along with a pedal only forum that have shut down. So yes I've actually read the various legal statutes on motorized bicycles and like vehicles along with bicycles in all 48 states. Never read Alaska or Hawaii.

The statutes you're using apply to the rental scooters. As for pedal only bicycles they're considered vehicles and are only restricted from roadways which have minimum speed limits that a bicycle can't maintain. It appears you may also lack some cycling skills which is why you feel you can't operate a slower moving vehicle in traffic. Be sure to watch all 3 parts of the videos.


View: https://youtu.be/ZFjCza5e1kw?si=MoGAueB7mvMbcRG-

It's becoming more and more apparent you don't have a driver's license. So build an electric bicycle and stay under 20 mph until you get your license back. Otherwise, you'd simply build a moped according to DMV procedure RS 68. You'll find building an electric bike to be cheaper than getting citations and going to court.

Again, i live here and yes I do have a driver's license, doesn't mean I own a vehicle, I clearly stated that I don't plan on using my bicycle as a motorized scooter forever and will register it when I put on a dirtbike engine or whatever other engine. Florida driver's are dangerous as hell and even with all the safety I can put on to make sure they can see me doesn't mean I won't get hit, most of the roads around me doesn't have a sidewalk nor bicycle lane so I'm forced to ride with 4 feet of clearance between people going 40 or 50 or just people speeding. Many stupid drivers here who I don't trust and believe going at least 40mph will keep me safer as it allows them time to move out of the way as I drive along the side than speeding past me while I'm going 10 or 20, no different than a person walking along a highway.

I'm not going to register my bike with a chinadoll to end up paying insurance on it and it's still legally a motorcycle because it can go faster than 30, it's simply stupid and I've shown you the definition of a moped. I've said before that it's simply impractical to build a electric bicycle because of battery placement and you only get 50 miles a day at most among the many other reasons, also in my state an electric bicycle needs to come from a manufacturer not a diy build to be legal, you may have generally seen these laws for many years but I still highly doubt you memorize all of them like some lawyer.
 
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