(Chinese) 2-Stroke Ban, and Do We Care?

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by gone_fishin, May 31, 2007.

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Do you care about the 2-stroke ban?

  1. not one tiny bit

  2. not really, my lil stroker still pollutes less than a cager

  3. yes, and i intend to go to 4-stroke as soon as affordable

  4. yes, and i won't use a 2-stroke at all because of it

  5. i don't vote in polls

  1. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    lately we've had the opportunity to learn a bit more about how our engines get to us.

    i'm interested in how the community at large feels about this.

  2. quay1962

    quay1962 Guest

    2 stroke ban?

    :x i did not know there was a 2 stroke ban! Is it the whole country or certain states? Is washington state one of them? Point me in the right direction for research...thanx
  3. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    so, do we really care?
  4. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    I voted not one tiny bit.

    I bet most of the 2 strokes on this board pollute more than a Civic. Honda had a test engine that exhauted air cleaner than it was intaking in downtown Tokyo.. :grin:

    I think the end users are OK at this point but the EPA is going to flex its considerable muscle on importers.
    So do not worry augi or encourage the spread of FUD (fear, uncertainty, despair).

    I did talk to Dennis of GEBE yesterday for about 30 minuets on his dime. He stated that the hammer was coming down on several of the suppliers of Chinese strokers because of the import practices.

    Smoke and excess noise draw negative attention. :cool:

    NOTE: Primarily Harley rides have replaced stock mufflers that had CATs with loud pipes w/o CATs. I hope those guys saved the stock exhaust systems because the EPA is shaking its swords at them too.
  5. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    nope, not trying to spread fear or loathing, only taking the pulse of the community :)

    my feelings about pollution, but ONLY my opinion: if you break down PPM (parts per million) to Parts per Person per Mile i think we got 'em all beat...
  6. turkeyssr

    turkeyssr Guest

    The poll didn't give the option that YES, I care and I hate to see them go. Contrary to other opinions, I doubt a small engine that gets 200mpg can pollute as much as a Civic getting 35mpg. I'm sure some pollutants may be higher from the small engine, such as unburned hydrocarbons, but I doubt it's that big a deal. In the grand scheme of things, it probably is time for these types of engines to go, but I hate not having alternative choices.

    As for Hardleys and other M/Cs that come equipped with exhaust catalysts, there are no state emission inspections for motorcycles that I'm aware of. The closest one I have experience with is in New Jersey. They checked my lights and horn and I was on my way. Not to start a flame war, but I don't believe in government inspection of any private citizen for any reason. Call me crazy for believing in the US Constitution. :shock:
  7. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest



    i think your opinion was what i was trying to accommodate with the "not really because i still pollute less" option. guess i coulda worded it better.
  8. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    A new Civic will pollute less than a Chinese stroker...period!

    <----<< a vg mechanic from early teens to sixty.

    All motorcycles from 1978 on have the mufflers stamped that thay are not to be replaced with anything but stock componets. The police could hand out insection tickets here on PCH all day long. We have signs in downtown Long Beach stating that loud exhaust WILL BE ticketed. The lack of CAT makes it an easy bust!
    So wave the stars 'n stripes all you want on the way to the court house. Hahahaha!

    On topic: I really could careless one way or the other about strokers. The newer ones are uber-clean and quiet.
  9. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    yeah, buddy! give me a good kit with a technically advanced stroker and i'd be good to go. better still, make a frame-mount 4-stroke with the good ole OHC look and i'd die happy for sure 8)

    yup, i do wave my flag, but i try to for all the right reasons..."it's a free country" has become a fairly common copout for treating yer neighbors like sh*t...

    i always gladly do my part, it's not difficult. my motoredbike is the best choice in my case, so i really don't care that unca sammy doesn't like it :D
  10. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    Living in a high density area vs a rural area with a low population are two different things. *wink*
  11. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    hey, wow! "i KNEW that!!" :lol: :lol: :lol:

    seriously, when i lived in the heart of downtown boston the situation said i couldn't have one, so i didn't 8)
  12. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    ok...Lets get real....

    Please do not Use a Honda Civic as an air purifier. It will kill you. In other words..It does not purify air as stated by someone in an earlier post. It can not and will not make any air cleaner. It burns fuel and oil. It pollutes. Period. A honda Civic with around 50,000 miles or so will burn a quart of oil every 500 to 800 miles. A new Honda civic with 46mpg rating only gets around 30mpg. Reason being? Well..In order to make a Honda civic go, you have to drive it like you hate it. That is why. And..That test loop mileage of 46 drops to 30 or less when under load and trying to keep up with traffic. A Honda civic is made with 4 tires, and to make those tires and to use those tires makes for a huge carbon foot print. Also..You have lots of steel, and almost as much plastic.100's and 100's of pounds of the stuff ..Again...More pollution.. You have wires, electronics, seats, steering, glass, differentials needing grease, more and more pollution. Tons more. Tons and tons more.They have air conditioning. Ozone eater and fuel eater. 30mpg just dropped even lower. Anti freeze? yes. A gallon or two of the stuff. Change it every 20,000 miles or so. Pure poison.. Also..A honda needs almost 35 gallons of fuel and a quart maybe more of oil to go 1000 miles. more with the heater or air on. Do not forget the oil changes. Gallons and gallons of oil for changes. A little 48cc 2 stroke motor using synthetic at 50:1 only needs 8 gallons of gas and a quart of oil. never needs and oil change creating excess pollution. Recycle your oil? yea..right...more pollution. Also..You do not have all the manufacturing pollution, grease, electronics, tires, glass, carpet, seats, headliners, steel, ect ect ect... All things put in proper perspective. The Honda is a pollution menace in comparison to the little 2 stroke motor assisted bicycles. With proper perspective and logic applied... Well..The Honda Civic should be banned because of all the pollution it causes in comparison to the little 2 strokes. And..Again..Do not use the little two stroke motor as an air purifier. You will die. With the Honda Civic..You will die even quicker. Use some common sense. Look at the total picture.. not just part. Thanks..Enjoy the ride.
  13. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    oh...I forgot.....

    I forgot to mention the paint Job on that Honda Civic. Pounds and pounds and several gallons of Oil Enamel paint. Lets break this down just a little

    Honda Civic..

    Gallons of anti freeze poison
    Pounds of Freon poison
    Pounds of Copper wire
    Pounds of wire Insulation
    pounds of glass
    Ditto Steel
    Ditto Plastic
    Pounds of Grease "also needs new Grease every 15-20k miles"
    GO 90 w oil for differentials " ditto"
    Quarts of Tranny fluid " Ditto"
    Computer/electronic components "more poison"
    Gallons of Paint "ditto"

    and on and on and on.... Wow !!!

    And..I just touched on a few things needed to make this little car. Imagine a big car !! wow !!!!

    If you add up all the pollution needed just to make a Little Honda Civic, well.......... You would have to run our little 2 strokes at 1:1 mix using straight motor oil with a 5000 lb rider full throttle for 10 years just to equal the pollution of this Honda Civic...and..That is before the Honda has even hit the road !!!!!

    Also...2 strokes are not banned. A trip to your local home depot will confirm that. As a matter of fact. Evinrude has a New E-Tech 2 stroke that burns cleaner than any 4 stroke made..Ever !! The Boat cops are now using them.. Also... Kymco is coming out with their new 2 stroke EPA cert scooter for 2007. So..Stayed tuned.....Get real.. Get out.. Have fun.. Enjoy the ride.... and get rid of that Honda polluting menace of a car and get a little 2 stroke motor and do your part to conserving Fuel and saving the environment !!! Down with Honda Civics !! Power to Motor Assisted bicycles 2 and 4 strokes !!!!! Enjoy the ride...
  14. spunout

    spunout Member

    SELL! SELL! SELL! :shock:
  15. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    :lol: :lol:

    truth be told, tho...thatsdax's posts were all about what we love to see any MBc member share, right? it's on-topic and relevant, imo.

    i couldn't find one active salesline either, so i gotta say if the info's correct, then thanks, dax.

    personally...i'm a bit surprised that i usually fail to ponder, or mention, the overall environmental impact my motoredbike has. sabrina II is the waaay lesser of the many evils i can choose for transportation 8)
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Except for the Honda needing a quart of oil every 600-800 miles, that'sdax is sooo right.

    Now consider a flight in a jet...or a train ride.....or anything with a nasty polluting diesel........huge carbon footprint as they say.

    As for Honda having a Civic that "cleans the air"? I call BS on that one.

    Prove me wrong, I'll shut my pie hole.
  17. spunout

    spunout Member

    Yeah, sorry :/ . There's been a few times I could've legitimately used it before, i just couldn't hold it in any longer :p . my bad, people. all apologies.
    But what gets me is this...why a ban on these, when hydrogen-fueled cars are a huge source of pollution? I know, the exhaust is only water, but the way the hydrogen is produced is by burning fossil fuels. . "Using existing technology, hydrogen can be easily and cleanly extracted from water. Electricity generated by solar panels and wind turbines is used to split the water's hydrogen atoms from its oxygen atoms. The hydrogen is then recombined with oxygen in fuel cells, where it releases electrons that drive an electric motor in a car. What Bush didn't reveal in his nationwide address, however, is that his administration has been working quietly to ensure that the system used to produce hydrogen will be as fossil fuel-dependent -- and potentially as dirty -- as the one that fuels today's SUVs. According to the administration's National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap, drafted last year in concert with the energy industry, up to 90 percent of all hydrogen will be refined from oil, natural gas, and other fossil fuels -- in a process using energy generated by burning oil, coal, and natural gas. The remaining 10 percent will be cracked from water using nuclear energy." -Hydrogen's Dirty Secret
    my deal is why is there a push to ban 2strokes, when supposed 'clean' cars are really not?
  18. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    That was a prototype that Honda tested in downtown Tokyo about 15 years ago and only the emission of CO2 was higher than the atmospher in that city. I could not find a link to offer. I do believe I read it in Cycle World magazine.

    It will be a cold day in hell before ppl in The States get out of their door slammer, cages. I have well over 100k on the road, riding motorcycles. Our roadways would be filled with safer operators if 30% of them were on powered bicycles, mopeds, scooters or motorcycles.

    A very short articl with plenty of comments.

    Closing comments.
    I remember when the air was so bad in the early '60s that childern were not permitted to play outside at school. It was really bad, one could almost taste it. I remember paying $0.19 a gallon for gas and smelling gasoline fumes from nearly every passing car. I remember being in traffic jams and the air was totally unbreathable...makes my eyes water just to think about it. Yes, I love the smell at the drags or the smell of bean oil at speedway but not every day when I'm motoring. You guys that live rural can get away with alot more than those of us in the big city. Please do enjoy yourselves. I'd like to live where I could reload and shoot 50 yard targets with handguns off my back porch. But try that herein Long Beach,CA. Hahahaha! :smile:

    The loud, smokey scooters got stepped on real hard by the law down here. The same will happen to loud, smokey pedal assisted bicycles.
  19. 2-stroke ban

    I hate the ban, it is unilateral, and aimed by the Japanese manufactures at the Chinese mfg's it was all a money-making ploy to protect the Japan mfg's from the cheap chinese engines, if you look, you will find, that you can still buy new Fresh Imported Japan 2-strokes. I did not vote, as there was no answer I could live with.
  20. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    Come on Mike. :smile:

    I remember the CZ, Jawa, Yamaha, Suzuki, Can-Am Bombardier, Sachs and Villers strokers of days gone by and these Chinese Strokers look just as crude, if not worse.
    It would not take much for the Chinese to meet EPA. The end cost might increase what? 25%~30%. And the build quality would be worlds better...Betcha! Car engines improved by leaps when the Feds legislated that smog-ability had to last 100k. Exhaust systems, ignition systems, camshafts, stable valve timing, auto trans control and fuel mileage all got better.
    I say, time for China to step into the 21st century. China's internal enviromental wreakage is increasing faster than their economic growth.
    Or so say the leading Chinese scientists who care about such things.
    China will get away with what they can, until they are forced to change.

    As I stated else where...Tanaka has fitted a CAT inorder to meet EPA tier II. Don't like the look of forced air cooling? Air cooled engines are an engineer's nightmare to get jetting right. Forced cooling helps with emissions by stabilizing engine temps for realistic jetting. That's why just about all road M/Cs are fuel injected and water cooled. Water cooled Harley V-twins are in the pipe line as I type...Betcha!

    Blame Nippon if you wish but I do think China will not abandon this market any time soon.