Christ Jesus...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by sparky, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    I'm curious where each of you guys draw the line with the Jesus story, if anywhere at all.

    (1) Do you think Jesus the man even existed in the first place? Historical evidence??
    (2) Do you believe that Mary never sinned and was impregnated not by Joseph, but by God?
    (3) Do you really think that three kings followed a star to a manger in Bethleham, bringing gifts for Baby Jesus?
    (4) Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins?
    (5) Do you honestly believe that his body rose from a tomb three days later?
    (6) Do you honestly believe in things like the Rapture?
    (7) Do you believe in an afterlife of Purgatory/Heaven/He11?
    (8) ... or only that you choose to make your time on Earth your Heaven and He11?
    (9) Do you think the bread/crackers & wine/juice really turn into the body & blood of Jesus?
    (10) Do you have any external sources to back any of this stuff up, or does it all come from that one Good Book?
    (11) Which version of the Bible do you consider to be the Good Book, anyway?
    (12) Do you believe your Good Book is 100% absolutely infallible?
    (13) Do you never imagine the Good book to just be a bunch of guiding morals & parables?
    (14) ... or that it is really only spiritual stories, like life after death really means your thoughts and spirit living on with other people as your eternal reward?
    (15) Have you never found any inconsistencies in your Good Book?
    (16) What Christian "sect" are you, anyway?
    (17) What do you think about the Pope? Why?
    (18) Anything else important about your religion that I missed?

    Did you know that Jesus implied he wasn't the Son of God?
    Son of Man... perhaps. Son of God... not anymore than the next guy.

    Christian Science got me thinking about all this stuff, because that is the only Christian religion I could possibly see myself interested in. There's a couple key areas that I really like: (1) "There is no spoon"; the material world is not Real, only Spirituality is Real (I love how they capitalize words like Real, Truth, & Mind, when in reference to the Spirit). The only part about religion that I ever believed was God and the Spirit, so it makes sense to me. Like everything else, Jesus was also not of this material world; he's a duality in the sense that he's the divine spirit, Christ Jesus... not Jesus Christ. (2) They do not take the Bible to be a 100% absolute, literal source, tho they do see the Spirit of the Message as extremely important.

    I read somewhere that primitive Christians believed the Sun to be God, Sunlight to be the Spirit, and the Moon to be Jesus (the reflection of the Sun).

    Zeitgeist - Jump to the 12:40 mark. What do you guys think about all that stuff? And don't try discrediting the content because of the background music. Google the content if you want to discredit the content.

  2. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Your post is very interesting, I didn't read it as is the case with most of your posts but I found it very deep and insightful anyway. Have a blessed day.

    Your brother in Christ

    Meaningful employment would help your day to go by much faster.
  3. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

  4. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Try interesting comparison I encountered.

    Well, rats, won't load.
  5. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    1) yes JESUS was a real person backed up by Roman historians. To the best of my knowledge his existence is not diputed by the historical community.

    2) If mary had cheated on Joseph... Im sure she would have been stonned to death per Jewish tradition for adulterers. Joseph must have had good evidence to believe her enough to defend her, because his reputation was at stake too.

    3) They were not three kings, they were called wise men. The translation would be closer to what we would call astrologers. They watched the stars and knew a king was born. They did not know he was the son of GOD... they thought he was an earthly knig... that is why harrod tried to kill all the first born Jewish boys. The wise men went to harrod first and asked "where is the new King of the Jews".

    4) Again Roman historians provided a historical account that JESUS did indeed die on the cross. Wheter or not he died on a cross isnt really debated... whether or not he died for our sins is up to you to decide.

    5) If you know anything about the Roman military you would know that death would have been a far better fate for the centurians gaurding the tomb than falling asleep and letting somebody steal the body. As a roman soldier/centurian you DID NOT fall asleep on duty. Severe punishment/death would soon follow...

    6) What do you mean by rapture??? You mean the end times scenario in which GOD will reveal himself to all??? Well... the Bible does say that the end times will begin when Israel is alone in defending itself. This scenario is coming closer everyday.

    7/8) I do not believe we as humans can get caught in between **** and heaven. We do not have the clearance.... I think it is either heaven or ****. I believe the Spirits we see here are higher ranking demons/angels not just dead people that want to stay where they are the happiest.

    9) I dont think the wine/crakers really turn into the blood and body of Christ... Im sure that physically your body digests them as grape juice and crackers.

    10) I would say that most of what I have posted could be researched from Roman historical texts. Most of my religious confimation comes from external sources... Although I dont have any discrepancies w/the Bible, to use it as my only source/proof is kinda self fulfiling.

    11) I think the original Greek/Hebrew texts are the only really accurate writtings. The rest are translations that were translated by people with bad Greek. That is where many of the discrepancies and contradictions occur.... in the translations. I wish I spoke yiddish and Greek so that I could read them myself... my Chritianity/Western Religion professor in college spoke greek/hebrew and he pointed out some of the innacurate translations... there are many.

    12) I cant speak for the Hebrew Bible because Im not Jewish... I will say that the majority of the New Testiment was not originaly authored to be sacred text. Most of the books in the new testiment are written as letters to the infant Churches... kind of like an ancient newsletter. With that in mind I dont think the new testiment was written to be sacred or infallable. It wasn't until a few hundred years later during the council of nicene that the Catholic Church got togather and edited all the existing texts to form one standarized Bible. After that they are the ones that claimed them to be Holy/infallable and not to be edited. For the reccord, I do think GOD moved Abrahams hand to write the first five books of the Hebrew Bible. The Torah is definitly infalable... I challenge you to try.

    13) The Bible is meant to exist on many levels... one of them is definitly as a group of guiding principles... the parables from JESUS are meant to illustrate his points to an absolutely uneducated population.... think of trying to explain complex religious principles to 1st century fisherman. You would need a study aid.

    14) that is exctly what happens after you die... your spirit joins others. Im not sure if I read the question right????

    15) sure there are discrepancies... that is the result of a text that is a hodgepodge of differing thoughts and sources that is complied over centuries of time. I dont think there are any discrepancies in the first five books of the Hebrew Bible... again I challenge you to try.

    16) I dont consider myself a denominational Christian. Almost all denominational Christianity came out of necessity to escape human persecution. If you study them all from the Egyptian Coptic monks to modern day Baptists you will see that they are all basically the same in fundamental nature. The major difference really is in relation to how close you can get to GOD while existing as a Human mortal. In that sense I like the views expressed by Martin Luther during the reformation. I dont think you need a Church to have access to JESUS and GOD. That is my main dispute with the Catholic Church... to buearacratic, to much centralized authority/controll. I dont think any other mortal has the right to come between you and GOD.

    17) Im not really a big fan of the Pope. I respect his knowledge/authority but I dont see it anywhere in the Bible, "you must elect a leader amongst yourselves to be my representative on earth". I think this designation was created by man to controll man... not much divinity involved.

    18) any other questions????
  6. kerf

    kerf Guest


    First off I'm not being judgmental but you're offering a reply to someone that in all probability doesn't care what you write. You can't change these minds only argue in vain with them. As support for this position, may I offer Matthew 7:6.

    Politics isn't religion.
  7. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    vtec, I'm not going to argue religion with you - you are heartily welcome to yours.

    However, I think you had a minor brain-fart whilst composing your answer to 12) above. The author of the Pentateuch was NOT Abraham.
  8. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

  9. suspect

    suspect Member

    !!!this is staggering, is all of america filled with christians like this?

    its like an alternate reality, like the old sci-fi plot where you accidentally change the future.

    christianity is famous for saying one thing and doing another, but all the christians i know are real committed nice people who honestly try to follow jesus's teachings, do what they believe is right and do some good in the world.

    in contrast to that, the christians on here seem more like something out of a bryce courtenay novel, bible bashing cos its what they must be seen to do if they dont wish to be outcast, and dishing out heavy doses of scorn and hate filled vitriol against anyone who doesnt believe what they do, its sickening and scary, you people are creating a climate where witch-hunting can occur, you probably think thats ok...

    i saw a video shot recently of some christians burning 'witches' one of the more horrible things ive ever seen.

    how can you people justify that?
  10. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Sorry, I inadvertently read your post. As to your last question, I feel absolutely no need to justify anything to you or anyone else here. Believe what you want, it's ok by me.
  11. suspect

    suspect Member

  12. fasteddy

    fasteddy Member

    Suspect, welcome to the C C.
    You should leave reality at the door. It doesn't work in here.

  13. kerf

    kerf Guest

    OH GOD HELP ME, that rapier like wit of yours has impaled me.
  14. suspect

    suspect Member

    well bigotry is simply stubborn refusal to even countenance another way of thinking, idea or opinion, you will not hear, and so you are blind.

    i like your quote tho, samuel adams was an american revolutionary wasnt he?
  15. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I find arguing pointless, it simply entrenches those with a differing opinion. Simply state your position, along with your reasons. If anyone agrees, fine, if not, also fine.

    He was one of the 56.
  16. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    You're not being judgmental, but "in all probability" vtec is offering a reply to someone that doesn't care what vtec will say? Do you even know me? I'm the most open-minded person you'll ever come across, yet you feel that discussing your beliefs is a bad thing?!?

    Unfortunately... yes. Christian Extremism provides no answers to those who do not blindly follow the Good Book and, of course, the AUTHORITY of the Extremists.

  17. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    no reply to what I wrote on your ???'s
  18. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    I'm getting there, V... I'm saving it for last. This place is loaded today.

    And for suspect, Christian Extremists are everywhere here... but the nominal Catholics here (as you so described yourself) are really the better of Christians from what I've seen. Of course, I was brought up in Catholic elementary & high schools... but they actually practice what they preach. Protestants seem lost, IMHO.
  19. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    you are right... I should have said whoever authored the Torah/Pentateuch.
  20. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    Moses... Not Abraham. Thanks for the correction.