Clutch Advise Tanaka 33

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by BTB Wild, Dec 29, 2007.

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  1. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    I plan to inspect the clutch pads during the winter down time. I have no clue how to proceed with the disassembly nor have I found sufficient info using the search. I would gladly appreciate any do's and don'ts of other info to help me access the clutch pads.
    I'll assume I have to dismount the engine from the bike? ( I purchased a quality set of T handled allen wrenches and ball end wrenches) Most likely I'll order new pads and attempt to install them myself. Does anyone own 2 clutch assemblies and rotate them out upon wear. Here in hilly PA that makes sense to me. Thanks for any help!

  2. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

  3. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    I may have read these posts before but it does not answer my question......that is...the disassembly of the clutch step by step. Thanks though, good info.
  4. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    BTB. I don't recall reading a thread showing the disassembly of a centrif clutch. So I guess you get to do the honors. On the positive side, from what I have seen, it should be a pretty straight forward operation. Please provide good detail and pics. The way I ride, I'll be using it for reference soon.
  5. sabrewalt

    sabrewalt Guest

  6. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

    Hi BTB, what did you find out? It seems that there is a problem with clutches as to what parts fit what engines and/or mounting systems. I would like to get a Mitsubishi TLE43 but it is almost impossible to find out what fits what. The engine will replace almost any of the engines on almost any small engine kit but the problem is trying to find out what clutch housings and drives fit which mounting kits and are they interchangeable?. Do the clutches have to be bought in one unit or can each piece be bought separately? Is there a cross reference list somewhere? Augidog has been involved in different mount systems so maybe he can help. Possible that a new sticky on clutches, housings and which one fits what can be started?
  7. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    Well KENSPICE, I have not yet begun to dig into the clutch assembly. Temps warming up around here so I was hoping to get a ride or 2 in before it gets cold again.
    GEBE told me I can order clutch pads from Tanaka so I'm assuming the clutch is part of the stock engine.....but I could be wrong. I'll be sure to post my findings when I get around to working on the bike. I estimate only 300 miles thusfar. I got a odometer / speedometer for Christmas that needs installed too. Should have bought one of these from day #1.
    It appears that it may be possible to remove the engine/clutch without removing all the mounting brackets.....then again I am not certain about this till I dig in. :confused:
  8. MtnGoat

    MtnGoat Guest

    Removing engine/clutch assembly

    I've got the original KZ 25cc kit, and though I haven't messed with the clutch, removing the engine is a snap. There is a set screw on top of the clutch housing that when loosened allows the whole engine to slip off the mount by pulling it horizontally to the right of the bike. No need to mess with mounting straps.

    I don't know if the new kits have a similar arrangement.
  9. Vaughn@Gebe

    Vaughn@Gebe Guest

    Here's some clutch advice from Dennis (owner/inventor of Golden Eagle)
    --- The top right pic shows r/s engine (Tanaka is identical) is straight on view of clutch shoes w/spring. To access clutch shoes remove the engine bracket (step#3) and clutch housing (step#1).

    You'll need a GOOD Allen to remove the engine bracket/clutch housing bolts and you'll want to be sure you can torque bolts back on when you replace them. Be sure to note which bolt goes back in the correct bolt hole!

    While engine is torn down to replace shoes; this is a Perfect time to clean the engine - spray brake cleaner on, and road grime/carbon drips off - Wipe well with soft cloth, to thoroughly dry.


    If you feel you're up to the task - Pay Attention when Removing Bolts and Shoes -

    Mitsubishi owners if you have an Eagle, step 3 is pic of your clutch shoes. John Deere makes the Mitsubishi engine.

    Tanaka, Robin/Subaru, Honda, John Deer - all accept the KSK 76mm clutch shoe.

    If ridden properly a set of shoes should last 2 or more years - if you don't find that kind of life, it's probably your riding style. It WILL wear out shoes prematurely if, when on a hill that is so steep or long, that engine speed slows to 8 - 10 mph - it's NOT going to do any good to hold throttle Wide Open, to try to power up the hill!! You'll have Much better results if - when you feel the clutch slip, reduce throttle slightly and Pedal to assist the engine. As you feel the clutch re-engage, Slowly increase throttle, to increase speed. Listen to your engine and you'll soon learn when rpm is mated to speed, you'll have the hill climb you need.

    The Subaru's continue to gain in hill climb, fuel efficiency and top speeds through 2000 miles. The Tanakas continue to improve up to 3500 miles.

    I'm definitely Not a member of the Spandex gang and not about to stand up to pedal extreme hills. My feet may be on the ground but I'm hanging on to the handle bars, and I'm still pulling the throttle - that engine is Going to pull me up that Hill!!
  10. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    Thanks Vaughn! This is a great start. I bought a top set of allen T wrenches to get to the clutch. Are any special tools needed to open the clutch, reset the springs etc?
    I'd suggest your excellent riding instructions be included with engine purchase. I had to learn this technique via trial and error. I took the bike for a 27 mile ride today and it ran great. Employing the techniques you mentioned along with a noticeable performance boost during the break-in. Maybe I don't need to access the clutch just yet. About 2 weeks ago I could smell the clutch burn a bit, excessive slipping etc. Today is seemed OK. I'd estimate 400 miles on the bike. Maybe I'll ride a few more times ( weather permitting) before I open er up. Thanks for the info!
  11. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

    Thanks Vaughn, an excellent post! It shows exactly what I needed and also shows the profesionalism and very good advice we can expect from you and Golden Eagle. When the rain stops in Wa. state (ha,Ha) and hunting season approaches I will get the big 2 stroke from you. Since the switch-over is so quick and easy, I will use the 40 for hunting and the 35 for the streets. I hope I remember to empty the tank and fill with the mix.(ouch) Thanks again, Ken
  12. Vaughn@Gebe

    Vaughn@Gebe Guest

    Our next printing, perhaps we should go into more detail but seems you missed this excerpt under "Operations" in the Installation manual that accompanied your engine:
    **When going up steep hills, if you feel the clutch begin to slip, throttle back just a bit, Peddle to assist engine, as you feel clutch engage, Slowly increase pressure on throttle and you will feel speed increase.**

    If you have burned up the pads of the clutch shoes, continued use will cause damage to the bell/drum of clutch. Usually you'll feel the clutch grab or hear a scrapping sound, when shoes are beginning to go - if they're grabbing/scraping, replace them - before more damage is done to your clutch bell/drum.

    When shoes need to be replaced, spring the extra $ and get a new Spring - that is recommended for the shoes you are buying. To remove/replace the clutch shoes requires a wrench & screwdriver. Be sure shoes are re-installed in the same direction, when replaced.

    Usually we do have clutch shoes in stock - who was it that told you you'd have to get the Shoes from Tanaka? 76mm KSK clutch shoes are available at many small engine shops.

    With 2 & 4 stroke engines around, we find it helpful to have Two gas cans, 2-stroke and 4-stroke Boldly marked on the cans - make Sure you don't get them mixed up! The 4-stroke will run with oil in the gas (not that great) but would cause no real damage. A 2-stroke run on straight gas, Will burn the engine up. Thanks for your Spicy attitude and good luck with the hunting!
  13. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    Is it possible to buy a new clutch assembly while the worn one is being rebuilt?
    Then swap em out as necessary. My local small engine shops are VERY slow with repair turn-around.
    If the new clutch assembly is available and sold seperately, how much do they cost? Thanks.
  14. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

    You might check the clutch housing to see if the area where the shoes engage is worn also. If not, just order and replace the shoes and spring as per Vaughn@GEBE in the above post by him.
  15. smapadatha

    smapadatha Guest

    You're not going to pretend that this:

    Which you tell people, is the same as this:

    Which you do not???

    GEBE Step 1: Wait until customers damage their clutches.
    GEBE Step 2: Warn customers about doing so.

    Why isn't this information on your website? Why is it the responsibility of your customers to figure out what the performance specs of your product are? Shouldn't that be your job? The cheerleading BS on the GEBE website says over and over how great your product is for climbing hills. There's nothing like the above information that I've seen.

    Yes. Perhaps.

    But for the people who have already been stupid enough to buy your product, do you really believe that the half-wit gibberish which you've posted in this thread constitute even casual instructions, let alone documentation?

    Got it. Wrench. Screwdriver. Boy, your manager at McDonald's must have ******* wept when you left to work at GEBE. But don't worry Vaughn, after I repair your *****y clutch, I'll write it up for you. I have job skills enough for both of us.

    GEBE Step 3: wait until customers are so frustrated that they painstakingly create their own documentation. Save a fortune which can be used to pursue GED certificate. Ka-*******-ching.

  16. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

    Hi Sam,
    I am fairly new on this website but I don't recall that many people having burned a clutch up. Have you had a problem with yours? I asked a few questions here and there on clutches but got pretty good answers from GEBE that told me exactly what I wanted to know. Mainly I wanted to find out how easy it is to swap engines back and forth (R/S 35 and one of the bigger 2 cycles). Vaughn put diagrams on this thread of just that. It will take the removal of 4 bolts, slide the old engine out and put the new engine in and replace the 4 bolts. As far as using the clutch to make it last is quite simple. When going up a hill if it is too steep for the engine it will start to slow down. If you get below the rpm that the engine requires to keep the clutch engaged it will start to slip. Don't let that happen! Start pedaling before it starts to slip. If you pay attention to just that one thing your clutch will last a long time. Hope this helps. One more thing. A clutch is a clutch. Clutches wear out. Manufacturers usually do not tell you not to ride your clutch. That is a part of driving that comes with experience. You are the first person to call me stupid for buying a GEBE product. I only have a thousand miles on mine yet but have not worn my clutch out. I may be stupid but I'm having fun! Ken
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2008
  17. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

    Hi BTB,
    Did you get your clutch back together yet? I did a little experiment today and disasembled my clutch. There are 4 allen screws that attach the engine to the clutch bell and housing. Without touching anything else (except to remove the black plastic tensioner cover) I had the engine on my bench and was inspecting the shoes and drum in 17 minutes! Those 4 screws are all that holds the engine to the GEBE unit. They are adequate because the engine is SO light. The plug that holds the fuel lines to the gas tank just pops out with a nudge from a screw driver tip. To remove the throttle from the engine takes about 2 minutes. After 1000 miles my clutch shoes were not worn at all. I very lightly sanded the drum, cleaned everything up and put it back together. 47 minutes after I started this maintenance check it was back together and the engine started and ran just fine. Very ,very simple system to work on and yes just an allen wrench, screw driver, piece of light grit sandpaper and a needle nose pliers were all that was needed. It is a very decent piece of equipment to work on and if maintained and operated correctly it will run great for a long time - and cheaply too! Ken
    By the way, I am still running my original tires and spokes.:D
  18. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    KENSPICE, thanks a million for posting this! I was still riding up until this week....winter has really set in! ( 20*F tomorrow ) so I'll get to pop er open soon enough. My guess is the clutch shoes may be alittle worn but still OK.
    I'll lightly sand the drum as you suggested. What to look for as far as pad wear? Should I measure with a caliper or will a visual inspection be obvious enough? Thanks again for the encouraging post! :grin:
  19. kenspice

    kenspice Guest

    BTB, my suggestion is to ask Vaughn at GEBE to get you a caliper reading of the thickness of new shoes. They looked to be about 1/8" thick if my memory serves me. As the shoes wear they leave dust in the drum. Lots of dust = lots of wear. Mine were quite clean. If you see any metal or they are worn more than Vaughn suggests, replace them. Another easy job. In my opinion, working on these clutches takes a very minimal amount of skill. Just a bit of common sense and a basic tool kit should get you through it just fine. Ken
  20. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    I'm Back

    I finally got around to inspecting the clutch. Thanks for the tips KENSPICE, a rather easy task for anyone except ole BTB. I broke the head of the allen wrench and of course it was lodged flush into the bolt head. So I removed the top mounting bracket so I could get the engine on the bench. I stared at the thing for 20 minutes contemplating my next move. Drill it out, order a new bolt etc? Called the machine shop and they advised me to suck it out with a magnet. Couldn't believe it popped out so easily.:oops:
    Anyway, the clutch looked OK, alittle dust......I'd say it's at half-life right now. I used my Dremel to clean up the housing then hand sanded with a light paper. Put everything back together rather problems.
    Since I'm using the stock clip-on throttle, there was no need to remove the throttle cable from the engine. I'll go ahead and order the clutch pads and spring ( only 2 pads, one spring....very simple design) so I have them on hand. I'm ready to roll! Thanks to everyone for your help.