Cryotempering Happy Time 2 stroke engine

[chrisnbush]

Yes - absolute zero is around about -496 deg F or something, N2 is -320, so N2 isn't that close to absolute zero anyway.

From what I know about it so far, it is actually a crystalization of the metal. Metal is essentially a glass, the molecules are "frozen" where they are when they were molten - this is the definition of a glass - amorphous. But over time glasses will crystalize, even at normal temperatures. Old window glass does this.

There IS something called "shallow cryogenics" which is down around the temperature I am at (-109F or something). As there are a lot of different metals and alloys involved in the motor (so some may benefit more than others), AND crystalization is not only temperature, but also time dependent, AND I am leaving the motor for 48hours I am hoping to reap some benefit.

At my rate of motor use, it would take 10 years to say yes or no on any advantage. I had one motor that lasted me 1500 miles, another 2500, another just 400. I guess if I got more than 2500 on this one I would superstitiously conclude that it improves the motor, and do it again (what the heck). And the motor I have is from the same vendor I got the 2500 miles on.

If the stupid motor isn't destroyed...



Chris

 

[give me vtec]

At my rate of motor use, it would take 10 years to say yes or no on any advantage. I had one motor that lasted me 1500 miles, another 2500, another just 400. I guess if I got more than 2500 on this one I would superstitiously conclude that it improves the motor, and do it again (what the heck). And the motor I have is from the same vendor I got the 2500 miles on.

If the stupid motor isn't destroyed...



Chris

sounds like you need an eho35 powered gebe kit... goodbye chepo chinese ****, hello quality Japanese precision.

 

[GearNut]

Oh I doubt the stupid motor will be destroyed. Maby it will last 3500 miles now....
Who knows.
I am intrested in your findings with this experiment.
Venturing into the great unknown.

 

[Turtle Tedd]

I think these chinese motors are probaby all they can be for what they cost..kinda like a disposable diaper......

 

[GearNut]

I think these chinese motors are probaby all they can be for what they cost..kinda like a disposable diaper......

What, stinky and full of s....... um, you get the idea.....

 

[MikeJ]

Instead of doing the entire engine, why not do just the cylinder and a couple sets of rings? (after all, whoever heard of a block, magneto, armature, or drive gears wearing out?) Maybe Spooky can set aside a few sets and sell them as "value added retail" parts. Swapping out a cylinder and rings is a job almost any bike owner can perform without special tools.

My thought for the day...
MikeJ

 

[chrisnbush]

You have a point, but I would want to do at least the needle bearings and main bearings also, if only for the reason that this has been what has failed on my motors. I doubt strengthing the housing would help much, the housing never fails right ?

I guess Chris Hill makes a business out of buying motors, and replacing the bearings right out of the box - for his "high end" models (I think I have that right) If you think of it, what ELSE in these hunks of **** would fail ? A piston or connecting rod probably isn't going to break. Well I know the clutch components, etc. fail. But a big source is the bearings.

Even with the best bearings I think these motors are destined to fail probably due to sloppy tolerances. If you think about it, if the main bearings, let say, aren't completely mated to the crank shaft, there is any wiggle at all, then part of each power stroke is transmitted as shock to the bearings - like hitting them with a hammer. Over time thats what does them in, and thats why Honda, Mitsubishi, Robin, etc. are superior, one of the reasons anyway - they certainly manufacture to higher tolerances.

I can't give up on these centermounts, I have tried rear mount friction 2 cycle (livefastmotors) and have a DAX rear mount titan. I like my Titan a lot, but have to say I get better overall performance out of the centermount - certainly not smoothness or quality - but performance. And that is before tweaking with tuned pipes, maybe spookytooth CMA carb. I might have had as good or better performance out of the tire roller, but they don't work in the rain, wear out the tires, wear out the rollers. I think the manual friction plate clutch just does a better job transmitting torque over centrifugal clutches.

Of course everybody has preferences. I commute on my bikes 30 miles a day, and want to minimize maintance and I don't like to pedal (I am lazy). I wish another company would start making centermount motors. I don't care that Grubee "personally inspects the engines". If the Chinese can't manufacture these engines to better tolerances, it doesn't matter how much pulling of parts, testing, cryotempering you do...

Chris

 

[MikeJ]

Hi Chris -

I hear you. If you depend upon your engine for a livelihood (or at least have it contribute to it) you would want better of anything that limits use of your engine. We typically complain about whatever breaks first. Your bearings go out and it is reasonable to want better bearings. (I had a mount stud break in the mount; I complain about that. Then the extractor broke in the stud. Now I am pondering a fix to make the engine useable again.)

Keep us posted sometime in the future as to whether cryogenic treatment was worth the cost. Some of us need to see "the experiment" results before we jump in and follow.

Mike J

 

[MikeJ]

I'm thinking too that these engines were once meant for the mud-poor farmer, who number in the tens of millions in third-world countries. They have to be cheap to be affordable.

The Japanese have long ago figured out that they can copy American-produced items, make them smaller, charge less money, and reap in a fortune, because Americans will buy any item if it is cheaper. Their first Hondas were laughable. Over time, they learned Americans are willing to pay for improved, enduring, expensive alloy engines. When they started winning high-profile world-class races, Japanese racing products won credibility.

There will always be a market for any product that is cheaply made but works and is easy to replace, as we demonstrate daily with these engines. With that, I need to fix my engine and go for a ride!

Later,
MikeJ

 

[arceeguy]

I would not dunk the entire engine. If liquid nitrogen is cold enough to change the structure of metal, I don't think it would do the oil seals and gaskets any good. I still think it is a waste of time, but if you're gonna do it, do the crank, con rod, piston and cylinder.