DAX Titan 4 stroke ?'s

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by DetonatorTuning, May 13, 2008.

  1. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    OK, i know this is a popular setup and there are some users here.

    is anyone using this setup for ultimate speed ?

    can anyone tell me what the peak rpm is on the Titan motor and how many teeth are on the engine shaft sprocket ? if i know that much i can run a gear calculator and work out my final drive.

    my bike weighs 45#, i'm 135#. i want to cruise at 45mph. will a 34 tooth sprocket get me there with the Titan rack mount ?


    edit, ooppps, might be important to also know what the internal reduction is on the DAX drive.
    Last edited: May 13, 2008

  2. I'm running a 44t and I've ran it to 30 with still some juice left. My son weighs like half of me and he says he can do 35 easy. I think he's probably the same weight as you. He's skinny,man.
    With a small enough sprocket that engine definitely has the power to take you there but like with all single speed kits you'll compromise in torque.
    Peak RPM I dunno. I do know when it's maxing out it sounds like a washer machine. It's really cool.
    Me? I like to cruise at about 20 knowing I got the extra juice.
    Consistent 45 mph on a bicycle in my opinion is bordering on the screws loose.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2008
  3. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    thanks Large,
    i've found that the max engine rpm is 8550 but the output shaft speed(rpm) is likely less than that through the reduction box.

    as far as i can tell the engine sprocket is 10 teeth.

    i have this ? on both forms and was hoping maybe Duane would see them and chime in. i left a message for him, no reply yet.

  4. kerf

    kerf Guest

    The lord knows that Large Filipino and I have had different views on several topics but on this one we're on the same page. A 45 mph top end and a 45 mph cruse are very different. Finding a bicycle power unit that will cruse at 45 is going to be difficult if not impossible. That being said, the issue is more one of the bicycle than the engine. They are not designed for these sustained speeds and this would be very dangerous. Tires, bearings and brakes are not up to the stresses these speeds will impose. It would be a good way to become very intimate with asphalt.
  5. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    i apprc' and respect your points and opinion.

    however, mountian bikes in the $500.00 dollar and up range are very well suited to this. most of them have hubs, bearings, forks, shocks and brakes that would serve for many light motorcycles.

    also, "cruise" may have been misleading on my part. i have a 20ml. (one way) trip to work that is broken up into 4 pretty even 5ml. segments by stops or turns. what i want to do is get to 45-50 range in those segments and then back down to negotiate the transitions.

  6. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Know what your talking about, I've got one and we've been to the 45 mark several times but not for long. I'm just not much on prosthetic noses.
  7. turkeyssr

    turkeyssr Guest

    I have a Titan. I don't have a speedo mounted, and where I live, California, the max speed is 30mph. I have read that the 34 tooth that I have mounted will yield around 40mph, but officially I can only go 30mph. ;-) I would think you should go down to a 30 tooth to get the speed you're looking for. You'll have to pedal more (especially with hills), but you appear to be in good enough shape, based upon your weight, that this wouldn't be a problem. As always, be careful.
  8. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    I see that you have already found out the the max rpm of the Titan is claimed to be 8550 rpm. Dax does not say wether that is with or without a load. The Power Take Off Unit/Reduction Box is said to be 5:1. and has a 10t driver. The Jackshaft has a pair of 10t drivers and the standard final driven sprocket on the wheel is a 44t. This all works out to 22:1 total reduction. These numbers when run thru a ratio/speed calculator comes up with 28.1 mph @ 8000 rpm and 30.1 mph @ 8550 rpm. I would speculat the cruise speed to be down around 7000 rpm wich comes in at 24.6 using the math. You can see that these calculations aren't close to the speeds claimed by Dax or several of the early users of this Kit. My guess is that even with a 36t final driven sprocket you will be well short of your target speed. I've read here that the Whizzer's are capable of the speeds you are looking for and I've read posts from owners of the Tanaka 47R that are claiming speeds of over 40mph. This is a very perplexing problem that the math of the ratio/speed calculations don't match up to the reported speeds.

  9. kerf

    kerf Guest

    R460 - 11,000 rpm * Staton gear box 18.75 / 1 * Chain drive 1 / 1 * 26" Wheel

    You do the math.
  10. I must have been over revving my engine. I used a radar sign a block away from my house when I clocked my 30 mph speed. And I had some more juice. And I went up a small incline so it was all engine.
    Now that radar sign has given me false readings in the past due to a car behind me going faster. But this go around there was no car.
    Engine was definitely screaming. I only did this once.
  11. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    thanks, that's very helpful.

    perplexing ? well i guess you could go that way.

    i've used spreadsheet based gearing/ speed calculators for yrs. when working on motorcycles and they have always been dead on. on the other hand, are you using a true rolling radius of a 26" wheel/tire in the calculation ?

    sooo, using the estimate of 1 mph per tooth from 44 to 36 apears to come up roughly 33mph and not nearly enough for my needs/ target.

    there IS a way to acomplish this, it may just take me alittle longer to sort out the motor/ drive options than i hoped is all.

  12. How about this. Get a much smaller rear sprocket. Looks like a 24 tooth lol to achieve that magic 45 MPH.
    Then get an electric hub up front and a battery pack.
    Pedal start then get that electric hub to propel you to about 12 to 16 mph taking into consideration I don't even need to pedal with my 44 tooth,it would take the same engine effort at 12 to 16 mph with that 24 tooth lol. Then pull that starter and have your engine take over. On hills use a combination of both powers with your pedaling even. When your engine is powering your bike, your electric hub is charging your battery so you really don't need a lot of heavy batteries.
  13. vyzhion

    vyzhion Guest

    I have an idea here... Some of the 'pocket bike' engines I have seen are very powerful. If geared properly, I believe one of those would get you to where you want to be. I am scared of going 45 on a bicycle personally but with the right bike I suppose it is possible. For example, the engine listed at the top of the page here claims 10,000 rpm. Say you could actually run that at 9,000 to be safe cuz that 10k is probably with no load. These engines match up perfectly with the Staton 18.75:1 gear box. With a 16 tooth drive sprocket and 22 tooth output sprocket, this would give you about 13.64:1 total gear reduction and a top speed of 51 mph. There are more powerful pocket bike engines out there, but this one gives the most bang for the buck that I found. I have seen folks who bought higher powered engines on ebay for a good price but finding those is hit or miss. Anyhow, these engines are designed for racing and are very torquey. There are also a large assortment of performance mods available that would likely allow you to increase engine performance even more. The only trouble with them is that they are all 2-stroke motors and would require mixing of gas and oil. I have been planning to try this setup out one day but playing around with this stuff can get pretty expensive pretty fast if one isn't careful. Good luck with your project. Please update us with any decisions you make or progress when you actually start building. Cheers. :)

    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2008
  14. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    45.4 MPH @ 11000 RPM

  15. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    Here are some facts....

    The Titan with a 36T can cruise 33-34 mph at 9000 feet. Keep in mind a 3-5 percent reduction on power for every 1000 feet rule of thumb. So I am way way down on power up here. At any rate, with my 36T I can do over 30mph no problem. This is validated by the use of radar. My digital speedo is with in 1-1.5 mph of the radar gun. Road side radar has validated my claim of mph numbers. My top speed has been 42.1 mph. That was going down a hill for a short jaunt. I wanted to see what the Titan would do on an over speed. It did not bat an eye. Please.. I do not recommend doing this. I was only testing durability. That was over 1000 miles ago. I have done it 3 or 4 times since then. But only hit 39-40. I have not hit that 42.1 since. Again.That was a down hill run. Engine was ripping !! Smooth.. AT any rate. Those are some digital and radar specs. As for cruising 40mph plus on level ground, the Titan does not have enough power at this high altitude to do that. Maybe.. But the loss in torque would be too great and wear on the auto clutch too large. The 44T is the best over all sprocket and can take you 30-35 mph with not much of a problem. Depends on wheel and tire size. But.. I do not promote nor recommend anything faster, even if you have a bicycle that can do that. My desire is to keep it legally a bicycle. That means 30mph max. And the Titan can already exceed that with the 44T. But only a little. I may have to supply them with a 48T and slow them down. What do you guys think? 48T? LEt me know.Thanks..And..Enjoy the ride..
  16. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    thank you all, this has become a very informative thread for me. i obviously have more studying to do.

    several of you have sent me additional PM's of info and encouragement and those were greatly aprec'd too.

    Duane, thanks for coming in on this.

  17. stude13

    stude13 Active Member

    maybe a motoredbike is not what is needed. a moped will legally go that fast and is built for the rigors of such speed i.e. brakes lights license insurance electric horn and such but thats another forum.
  18. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    sounds like you need a Kawasaki Ninja !!!!
  19. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    ninja my #ss, between the last 2 posts i've had 2 systems each of which went 45mph out of the box and the first was pushing 55mph when i gave up on it.

    now i'm about to release a system of my own that provides the best features of both and hopefully none of the negs.

    dedcated down hill and/ or free ride/ stunt bikes have more than adequit components for speed and longevity. i have lights, brakes that scare most people. there is no other thinly regulated transportation alternative around here that will do 160-200mpg at those speeds.

  20. skyl4rk

    skyl4rk Guest

    How about some info on your systems?

    Ignore the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth