Do "Outlaw Bikers" Help The Ebike Cause?

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by safe, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. safe

    safe Active Member

    Do "Outlaw Bikers" Help The Ebike Cause?

    The laws about power limits for ebikes are pretty clear:

    Europe / Australia - 200 watts to 250 watts

    Canada - 500 watts

    United States - 750 watts

    ...however there are several categories of "Outlaw Bikers" that are exceeding the power limits by a wide margin including:

    :D Overvolted Hub Motors like the Crystalyte (up to about 5,000 watts)

    :D RC Brushless Motors adapted to Ebikes (up to 12,000 watts using twin motors)

    ...and these people often dominate the forums because their stuff is really exciting to look at and operate.


    The question is whether online forums should support and encourage "bad behavior" and give it the aura of coolness (sort of like drug dealers) or whether we as a group should adhere to the laws that exist and point out that breaking the law is either wrong or unwise.

    Does lawbreaking increase or decrease the chances that the laws will be made less strict?

    Should we want the laws to be made less strict?

    I live in America where 750 watts is the rule and in my state the law actually allows up to three horsepower... so I've never been hassled, but in some places the law is not so supportive of such things.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009

  2. safe

    safe Active Member

    My Own Strongly Held View

    What I want to see is the worldwide acceptance of a 750 watt limit for all ebikes. Once this universal standard is accepted everywhere (which for those outside of the United States will seem like a big advance) I want to see ebike public opinion begin to frown on those that break the universal limit.

    Taking things a step further I see future ebike racing to be based on a very strict 1000 watt input side limit. (which approximates 750 watts on the output side making the power legal based on the universal limit) This makes the technical aspects of equalizing the racing very precise because a simple circuit attached to the battery can limit power. (think "restrictor plate racing")

    Once this gets "settled" then we really have a sport which will attract actual professionals that might be seen on ESPN or any other sports network. One day we might just as likely watch a motorcycle road race, the Tour De France or an international ebike race.

    One can dream I suppose... :thinking:
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  3. augidog

    augidog New Member

    what he sed, only change "e-stuff" to "internal combustion" or better still combine the two...but i'd like to add chassis safety as another aspect that will eventually lead to stricter regulations if we as a group continue to ignore it.

    safe: see this old forum, still active but barely, & in need of new brains to fire things up:

    also see specifically the "130 MPH Club Specialty Classes" reason Motorized Bicycles couldn't earn their own classification over time. btw, "World of Speed '09" is under way after a rain-delay...i hear tell of MB's wanting to attend and hope to learn that someone actually made it to the salt.

    organized racing leads to standards, which makes the vehicle easier to understand & therefore accept.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  4. moondog

    moondog Member

    I have some mopeds. One has tires that say 30mph max speed. One has tires that say 70 mph max speed.

    You can put an electric motor on a motorcycle and use a motor larger than 750 watts and go faster than 50 mph.

    Those larger motors are for motorcycle use.

    Bicycle tires and wheels and not made for the higher speeds like motorcycle tires and wheels.

    I think if one wants to use one of those wonderful 2000+ watt motors they should put it on a small motorcycle and register it as a motorcycle and ride out.
  5. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    Electric Power is the future !!!!
    And outlaw's can be visionaries !!!
    Just be carefull reaching for the future.. You will want to be around when it happens !!!!
  6. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    As i see it the only reason this thread was started by Safe was to rally support for his cause, He already has the Ebike Motors: A Political and Historical View[/B] thread in the electrical section that has all the same **** he's dribbling here way to clutter the forum Safe but hey your no novice at that either are you pal.

    Of late there has been a handful of fellas (myself included) Fitting high powered RC motors to Bicycles, this****** Safe off no end as the little fantasy he has been attempting to sell to everyone that will listen for the last 3 years is Electrical Bicycle Road Racing (EBRR) .. how much interest has been displayed by others wanting to also build an EBBR bicycle and compete Safe ?....oops you answered your own question in the battery thread...after 3 years 3 bans from forums for littering peoples threads with your bull **** EBRR agenda you have exactly how many people racing now?

    NONE not a single person!!

    Safe attempts to do everything on the cheap nothing wrong with that, but some of these e-bikes with big HP are expensive often with custom fabricated reduction drives pricey controllers and interfaces, that Safe is unable to make by himself and is too stingy to buy from anyone that can. To top it off...these machines performance obliterates Safes little fantasy bicycle road racer, the interest in RC powered bikes is drawing what very little attention Safe already had away from him and EBRR...this thread is just another pathetic attempt of his to gain more interest in his own dream while attempting to put others down that choose to ride higher powered bicycles.....Its the individuals right to use what they want, if they chose to break the law by riding their overpowered machines on the road so be it, your kidding yourselfs if you think this is going to attract any more unwanted attention than a legal e-bike breaking the laws on the road....A fully LEGAL e-bike is more than capable of breaking road laws and speed limits that will draw unwanted negative attention to the e-bke cause...just as easily as a high powered e-bike does Safe and im positive you know this too!

    Who's Legal?
    Safe neglects to mention the 750WATT law comes with a 20MPG top speed ...Mr Safe has an e-bike that is capable (if you want to believe him) of close to 60mph! it has a full road racing bike fairing and whats this ...hello... he uses a 1000watt motor this is OVER the federal law for bikes sold in the USA regardless of what state your in! he also knows full well he ISN'T using 1300watts as he states he does when doing top speeds, closer to 3000watts So hes as big an "Outlaw" as the rest of the RC Motor using brigade!! Limit the motors to 1000watts Safe your EBRR will be about as exciting as watching two flies crawl up the wall..currently could be likened to watching paint dry or grass growing he will try and tell you he is more aerodynamic this is how he achieves it, with the fairing, this is true he is more aerodynamic than say a mountain bike rider in an upright position, i have seen recumbents with full enclosures which are a **** load more aerodynamic than Safe's bike when he's tucked up behind the fairing and they use double what he claims to produce to maintain comparable speeds...BUT He will never know exactly how many watts hes consuming for the simple fact he refuses to use any form of real time monitoring and simply makes up little pointless charts depicting what he wants to/you believe..

    To sum things up, Safe you are as guilty as anyone using overpowered bikes pal and prolly more guilty of drawing negative attention, if it was positive attention you would have people knock at your door asking "where can i buy one"...JUST like they do with recumpence and his custom bikes!!! ****ES you off don't it pal LMAO...way to bring negative attention to the cause Safe ... and the way you ride HAHAHA (like your on a race track) draws more negative attention than anyone riding sensibly obeying the road rules whilst using an overpowered bike, just because it has the power DOESN'T mean HAS to be used recklessly, it make maintaining a constant LEGAL speed up all inclines possible <--that didn't cross your mind though did it genius??? :-S You really think you cornering at speeds nearing the limits of the tires adhesion, wearing full racing leathers full face helmet while dragging a knee ain't going to bring unwanted attention Safe ....give us a break pal...

    RC Powered bikes are here to stay Safe like it or not as is your EBRR, i like your build i have said this publicly many times you are a very skilled and intelligent man but your social skills leave alot to be desired pal and this whole jealousy thing you have going with RC users & Matt and myself in particular, well. it really is quite pathetic IMHO.

    Apologies for the long winded spiel i just felt it needed to be said.


    p.s how the **** are "drug dealers" cool Safe?? what are you on??? i would go flush it down the toiler immediately if i were you pal.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2009
  7. graucho

    graucho Active Member

    We may as well crash and burn this entire forum if this is the case. Lets switch the topic from electric to gas. There are a few thousand members here who have 66cc or above when the legal limit is 50cc or lower. I feel this thread is mute. Im afraid I cant share your opinion. What a flipp'in boring world this would be if everything was to follow the same line.
  8. augidog

    augidog New Member

    i didn't notice any jealousy, nor did i see any personal attacks in the OP, no matter the past history which i am not privy to.

    i did, however, notice someone's lack of social "if i cuss enuff then my point is more valid than yours."

    i don't care if someone wants to build the big one, but IF we're talking MB's definitively, then the OP's points are valid, in my opinion...the big ones will eventually have an effect on the legality of the entire fleet. since i freely chose my genre-style i DO care about that.

    when you build those powerhouses, are you building an appropriate chassis to handle it? trust me, the large majority of the "big" builders are not.

    and, why NOT take the "unlimited" 's to the track along with the other "classes" ? last year i saw an electric 3-wheel "wedge" streamliner (like a tadpole with a body) top 100mph in the timed-mile using 12V sla's.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  9. graucho

    graucho Active Member

    I wonder if the MB "movement" will ever "move" without a MB leader with a little clout in high places. I try to promote a safe legal sport but I feel I speak a lot of blah-blah-blah without anyone with a strong back fighting for me in legislation.

    Were a bunch of people talking bikes but we wont "move" until were a structured global organization demanding to be heard.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  10. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    I can't speak for all only myself and the answer is YES i use tubing with a 2.5mm and 3mm wall thickness on my frames, all mig welded.

    Who says they haven't? Only a month or so ago DoctorBass was broadcast on national TV as he set the world record for electric bicyle over 1/4mile ~19sec @ 94km'hr Currently a build in progress aiming for 160km/hr over the quarter. Luke (LiveforPhysics currently holds the electric bike top speed record on Endless Sphere with a 64mph sustained top speed...uses the same motor i am running incidentally...two of them to be precise!) I also intend to take my latest build to the 1/4mile this summer for official timed run, hoping to get close to the current record. not the 160km/hr Luke intends i draw line at 100km/hr thse days im too broken from formimg motorcycle accidents to fall off at big triple digit numbers.

    You have obviously had no dealings with Safe in the past so ill tell you this for free... if he gets involved on the forum you linked to in your first post you will rue the day he did, he will take over ever thread like a spam bot, ****ing everyone off in the process, Safe lost what little respect people had for him aloooong time ago because of his continual spaming of his EBRR **** on other peoples threads.

    No apologies for the cussing i hear worse from school kids its how i speak IRL i make no apology for it here don't like it don't read my posts in future ..simple as that. I have outstanding social skills FYI my last job was as Human Relation Officer for a larger mobile phone company, thanks for noticing :p

    I think the little ICE motors days are limited either way buddy, as the world clamps down with stricter emission's controls the lil china two strokes won't be able too pass & they will be made illegal to use anywhere on or off road, either that or the mods needed to make them 'envoronmretally acceptable' will strip them of what littl eperformance they had to start with...maybe not in 4-5 years but definitely in 10-20 years time....bu thats a whole other story isn't it LoL I think a global organisation with a well known and respected spokesperson would definitely be a good step in the right direction, either way though, ill still be riding my high powered rc motered bike whether i have to do this on or off road will be upto the future law makers....


    p.s Graucho...have you started another build yet buddy? been more than a week and i haven't seen another bike cranked out from the "Custom Bike Graucho Production Line pty ltd" hehehe ...if you have please link me to the worklog...if not why not and when and what will it be a LoL
  11. augidog

    augidog New Member

    you know why i don't hear about the stuff you just told me about? because i can't just go to one place and get the scoop about ALL the real racing that's starting to happen. so far, we're all over the place.

    why don't you and the other 1/4mi racers go to mbra & get involved? i'm not doing any racing for a while, but i still believe organized racing is a good way to find the other leaders/spokespeople needed. join up, discuss (and agree on) classes & rules for 1/4 mile runs, both gas & electric, and go for it. be sure to include everything (cc's or watts) from "street-legal" to "unlimited"...example: i did 32.4mph with 32cc's, so to "beat" me you'd have to do it with 35cc or less...not to retract from anyone currently representing, but this "fastest" stuff is moot until we define classes.

    to all concerned: lament the lack of organization or do something about it. tho i'm hardly qualified, i tried, and believe this: leading such a fragmented "movement" as this returns very little to make you want to keep doing it.

    as far as cussin' goes, no way i was personally offended, but you're in someone else's house, bro, and MBc don't need google associating it with that content...don't apologize to me, but show some respect to MBc...otherwise you're no better than those you criticize, eh?
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  12. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    Had a look doesn't interest me in the slightest even less if Safe starts up there.

    Not concerned at all just agreed on the point Graucho made

    pft..nothing to do with "disrespecting" MBc :rolleyes7: If the admins feel inclined to they can delete my posts frankly i couldnt give a ****. I haven't directly cussed anyone yet..."Bro"
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  13. augidog

    augidog New Member

    i get it just like showing off how far you can p***...oh well...all i was offering was solution, a place to focus...if we could all agree to p** in the same direction we might accomplish something.

    anyway, until i see safe pull anything on me or MBRA, i will agree with the premises behind this particular OP.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  14. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    hahaha Dear me...yeah thats it exactly got me in one worked me right out you did chriiiists sake...

    I checked your lil forum theres nothing there of interest to me why would i want to contribute?

    You will be pleased to know since you ran off to the admins like a hurt little girl, you wont have to look at anymore of my so offensive language i have advised the admins my worklogs contain the EXACT same langauge its NEVER been an issue i have never received a pm asking me if i would mind not swearing UNTIL you have a little cry :: tissue :: ? So congrats on having work thats taken me over a year to collect and document so people here could benefit from it being removed... good job you win you must be so proud...

    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  15. augidog

    augidog New Member

    are you saying that the first time someone calls you on yer carp, ya gotta run off like a hurt lil girl?

    shoulder yer own blame, as i'm willing to...what a fargen putz.

    on the whole, considering all the dynamics of the last 3 years...y'all are mostly putz's, guys like graucho want backbone, guys like safe want regulation, guys like jester want anarchy, everyone wants freedom freedom FREEDOM! yet noone DOES ANYthing! and if someone tries, he gets slammed...boolsheet, ya's carp all over each other every chance ya get, that's what ya do...i can't wait for spring, i'm gonna travel...and i'm gonna hope that wherever i go i wasn't preceded by some numbnuts-rider who's got the local cops all worked up...wish me luck with that because i'm gonna need it.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  16. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    And why has the language never been an issue until now...hrmz? NOTHING has ever been said to me in the two worklogs and 392 posts i have made here until your get your feelings hurt because nobody wants to go get involved in your **** ant joke of a forum boo * * * * i n g hoo augidog. And you have the audacity to say Graucho needs backbone, i seen his work he is a credit to this forum and a genuinely nice fella which is a * * * * load more than i can say for you noddy, keep on though im sure you can **** more people off.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2009
  17. augidog

    augidog New Member

    i'm proud of my contributions, i know what they are, some others do too...i don't give a rat's heiny about whether you do or not...don't bother telling me who is nice who isn't who has backbone who doesn't who "changes sides" and preaches a different game than he practices or who does what for who...i've been at this a long time and paid very close attention to all the different personalities out there, during my "career" i've had at the least a fleeting personal relationship with almost every significant MB-personality there is, can prolly dig up 2 conflicting PM's from every one of them, and in general i am NOT impressed with them as people...believe me when i say that most people need p***ing off to make them think, and i don't care if they like it or not, never have never will. it doesn't work nowadays anyway, everyone's all about themself.

    might it be possible i offered up the ad-free MBRA with good intentions? good luck making me feel bad about that.

    see here, the way i see this is that you didn't HAVE to say a word in this topic but just couldn't help yerself, and nothing you've said since has convinced me otherwise...if you step in it, it will likely why step in it?
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  18. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    Ever wondered why your the only active member on your forum :-S

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  19. augidog

    augidog New Member


    like i said, i've watched everyone "waffle" for years. i showed backbone and was admired for it until someone took it personal...shoot, everything's personal, i can't tell what i know about the HT market because some HT rider will think i'm insulting him. HT guys diss rack-guys, 750W guys diss 1000w guys, pedal-guys diss no-pedal guys...look more closely at what i've been observing, and quit resorting to lame insults.

    have i ever wondered why people can't get over things and work together for the sake of the bike?


    like i said, you just can't make me feel bad about good intentions. MBRA wasn't founded to compete for traffic or clicks, but to nurture the movement thru organized competition and responsible presentation of our vehicles.

    have i ever wondered why some people just can't let other people move forward?


    so you're an "outlaw" MB'er? so WHAT? how can a couple guys discussing trying to organize racing and setting some standards hurt you? no way, that's you just stirred it up because you felt like it...putz.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  20. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    Not trying to make you feel bad simply asking a question...

    Why are you quoting and answering yourself now WTF ?!?#@!?1

    You have all the answers...prolly coz your answering your own questions...either way leave you all to it :: unsubscribed ::

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009