Electric not there yet

[darwin]

Well I sold my electric bicycle, I'll miss it. 50 mile range is not enough for me I need 100 to be happy using throttle only w/some pedal assist. To be where I needed to be another $1300 battery was needed to accomplish the task. Too much money just can't do it. Some day maybe but not today. I do like electrics though, so quiet and torquey if you have a 750 watt motor. Just wanted more range, the co I bought from stated 100mi range. It's doable with an athletic person w/lots of assist. Well that's just not me. Back to gas motors and I'm excited w/the 53cc's available and that new GX 50cc coming out. Gonna try a GEBE kit out this time.

 

[bakaneko]

Yeah, since I am doing that gas generator hybrid thing, I agree. Today, I was just thinking about the number of e-bike touring videos on YouTube = virtual zero (versus motorcycle touring). I think eBikes will be there once the EV charging network is as near prolific as gas station and we can charge our wee little ebikes on those chargers with an adapter of course. Until then, its all marketing and green energy hype that ebikes are gas car replacements (maybe less than 20 miles round trip). I love my eBike but as it is it still has a ways to go.

 

[Deleted member 26224]

Well I sold my electric bicycle, I'll miss it. 50 mile range is not enough for me I need 100 to be happy using throttle only w/some pedal assist. To be where I needed to be another $1300 battery was needed to accomplish the task. Too much money just can't do it. Some day maybe but not today. I do like electrics though, so quiet and torquey if you have a 750 watt motor. Just wanted more range, the co I bought from stated 100mi range. It's doable with an athletic person w/lots of assist. Well that's just not me. Back to gas motors and I'm excited w/the 53cc's available and that new GX 50cc coming out. Gonna try a GEBE kit out this time.

$1300 is for how big a battery?

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

. I think eBikes will be there once the EV charging network is as near prolific as gas station and we can charge our wee little ebikes on those chargers with an adapter of course.

Even then, no one wants to sit at a gas station for several hours waiting for the battery to charge.
I want to sell my Emoped soon and buy a battery to make my bike a hybrid, then I can tour between campsites and recharge there (at considerably greater cost than recharging at home), but the petrol motor will always be used more than the electric.

 

[darwin]

$1300 is for how big a battery?

19.2ah 52v and the battery is proprietary to that company's bicycle. The BMS system is unique also so you just can't buy a copy. Plus the way it mounts on the bike is unique. There's companies out there to rebuild a battery but not to buy a new one that works plug n go on that bicycle.

 

[Deleted member 26224]

19.2ah 52v and the battery is proprietary to that company's bicycle. The BMS system is unique also so you just can't buy a copy. Plus the way it mounts on the bike is unique. There's companies out there to rebuild a battery but not to buy a new one that works plug n go on that bicycle.

That’s a 1kwh, I’m gonna assume full of 18650s which is why there is a BMS. You can run hobbyking multistars in place of those. The standard non sale price is around 450/kWh. I’m building my own 1.8kwh pack from cells I bought for 185/kWh but with the labor and parts it comes to about 230/kWh. Lipos are far better, you can bulk charge them, treat them like s**t and they still won’t blow as easily as 18650s. And absolutely no reason you should pay 1300/kwh even with a bms. I don’t even have a bms! I plan on balancing once a month or even less.

 

[darwin]

Be careful Tony, lots of fires in the news concerning those types of batteries. Serious stuff of buildings burning down and folks getting burned. Explosions too hurting folks from simple vape pens and cell phones.

 

[Deleted member 26224]

Be careful Tony, lots of fires in the news concerning those types of batteries. Serious stuff of buildings burning down and folks getting burned. Explosions too hurting folks from simple vape pens and cell phones.

Which types of batteries exactly? Are you aware that vapes and phones have different kinds of batteries? Batteries do not just blow by themselves. SOME do with misuse.

I’m not sure what my cells are exactly. Thought they were lipo. I have a couple dead cells and I tried to blow one up just to see if something would happen in a crash. I even cut it with an axe and nothing happened. A little smoke and puffing up a tiny bit was all.

18650s are the most dangerous of the lot.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

A fully discharged lithium cobalt cell is not dangerous, but a charged or charging one is.
Never charge lithium cobalt batteries anywhere you would not intentionally set a fire. The oven will do. Never charge lithium cobalt cells without someone present at all times with a fire extinguisher.
Don't scrape a charged lithium battery or chop it with an axe.
((Lithium cobalt (LiCo) is often referred to as Li-Po or Li-poly because the layers are separated by polymer (plastic), but not all cells constructed in this way are Lithium cobalt chemistry.
LiFePO4 is also a pouch type cell with polymer separators and could just as correctly be called Li-Po if you wanted to be a confusing, pedantic SoB.))

18650 cells have a much more dangerous mode of failure. Instead of an intense fireball like lithium cobalt, they build up pressure until they explode violently with shards of burning metal casing going everywhere.
But they are tougher and a lot less likely to "go pyro" than lithium cobalt pouches.

LiFePO4 chemistry is safer than the other two mentioned above (as far as I have read so far) and has good cycle life but lower energy density.

Lithium batteries, generally, or taken together as a class of batteries, are statistically much, much safer than petrol.


I will either build a custom battery with 18650 cells and a no-weld no-solder kit (Vruzend) and a decent BMS,
or I'll buy a large battery made with LIFEPO4 (lithium iron phosphate) pouches and a BMS, then carefully split the battery into two parts (while fully discharged to its BMS's low voltage cut-off point, just in case) and extend the wires to make it two pieces connected by wires so its possible to mount each half on either side of the bike frame.

I don't really want LiCo on my bike next to all the petrol, and needing to recharge with the battery mounted on the bike. (my peculiar requirements)

 

[Frogslayer]

Videos all over the youtube of those 18650s blowing up extremely violently and burning stuff down. Looks like about an m80 worth of explosion when they go off. The old, real m80s that can blow a couple fingers off of a hand. I've fried and witnessed the frying of lipos in RC cars and planes. Hard packs and soft packs. Sometimes they just puff and get extremely hot and kind of flame out. Sometimes the explode and blow the body right off the truck. Seen it happen from crashing, jumping and for what seemed like no reason at all. Bulk charging is not recommended for lipos and i don't know where you get yours but they really don't take any abuse (whether it be charging at too high of a rate, over discharging, or old fashioned physical abuse). If you can go more than 3 charge and discharge cycles with that many cells i will be surprised. When they do get out of balance, it can take quite a while to rebalance them.