FEDERAL LAW SAYS YES !!! And now State Law too ? Yes !!!!

loquin

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#41
OK. I Did some digging & came up with some links for you to take a look at.

Essentially, it appears that the DOT (Dept. of Transportation) and the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) are duking it out at the moment. Although, if they seriously get into a shouting match, DOT outranks NHTSA...:cool:

The NHTSA Rules Interpretation Files had a couple of responses which seemed to fit motorized bicycles as a class.

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/15444.ztv.html
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/14165.ztv.html

The scoop is that NHTSA feels that if a Motorized Bicycle is capable of pulling out from a standing start, then it should be classified as a motor vehicle (Motored Bike.) If it can't (engine power, gearing, clutch, etc.) then it shouldn't be classified as a motor vehicle. The idea is that if the bike motor is used to ASSIST the human pedaler, (in going up hills, or for continuing to push the bike along when the pedaler is fatiqued,) then it should be treated as a bicycle. (Did I ever tell you that I get tired VERY easily ??? ;))


Now, on the other hand, the DOT has a different spin on things.

DOT Intrepretation & feedback
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/pdf/05-11764.pdf
This issue of the Federal Registrar discusses the 20 MPH speed limit of motorized bicycles, and how the testing would be performed.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf92/342345_web.pdf
A letter from the motorcycle industry council, responding to the proposed DOT regulation above. Although against implementing the regulation, they noted what we already know (and find frustrating)
"The maximum speed of a human-powered bicycle can be considerably greater than 20 mph."
 
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grndslm

Guest
#42
Yea...well, I still don't think any of this helps me as my city requires all vehicles with motors that get on city roads to register with the city or state or whatever... and I'm sure that includes getting an inspection sticker and prolly having insurance and a valid license (which I'm about to lose) as well.

So, since the only federal law we have is in reference to electric bikes, I guess I'll have to make a gas-electric hybrid recumbent trike!!! Then I'd really have something to push me without my legs moving when the cops get closer to me.

Uggh.... I hate my city.
 
S

SirJakesus

Guest
#43
Yea...well, I still don't think any of this helps me as my city requires all vehicles with motors that get on city roads to register with the city or state or whatever... and I'm sure that includes getting an inspection sticker and prolly having insurance and a valid license (which I'm about to lose) as well.

So, since the only federal law we have is in reference to electric bikes, I guess I'll have to make a gas-electric hybrid recumbent trike!!! Then I'd really have something to push me without my legs moving when the cops get closer to me.

Uggh.... I hate my city.
Well you could look at it in the way of being able to have the best of both worlds. Electric propulsion is much more smooth and quiet and the small generator will give you extremely long range. Sounds like it could be a very reliable system overall really and with the size of some generators it may not be very much heavier than a normal ebike with SLA batteries. One of those small 1500w generators and a 1000+w AC motor could really get you moving like a bat out of he|| I bet! Maybe you could figure a system out to use a small battery pack to zip through parks and other bike only areas without setting off the fuzz aswell. Sounds really cool to me.
 
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KilroyCD

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#44
I've run into conflicting laws within the pages of PennDot while trying to figure out if/how I can get my Columbia registered for the street. While my bike falls under just about every criteria for moped, it lacks an automatic transmission. It would need to be registered as a motorcycle, despite having a 48cc engine. The PennDot regs state that with less than 50cc, the bike does not need a title. Yet in another section they categorically state that no untitled vehicle can be registered in the state. As RdKryton said, I just ride around town with the unofficial blessing of the local constabulary, but they told me that if I should see a state trooper to "kill the engine and pedal". lol
 
H

Hot Dog Piggy Tails

Guest
#45
so many watts Equals \

So much wattage Equals so much HorsePower its a figure expressed in overall work the Exhaust has to be packed with sos pad and new internal pipe hole drilling for spark arrest.Ive taken the precautions close as I can and have had no troubles. Besides my dang waiting for my new CDI Ihtink theres a diode and its forward byassed once the switch on the out put of your Magneto lets go the a cap is discharged (maybe) at the correct time but morks the unit backwards at time of shorting. sorry for Off subject.
 
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EZheimers

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#46
The Laws?????

Has any one here in Washington State received any 'For Sure' information on the state law vs the Federal laws?:confused:
 
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grndslm

Guest
#47
EZheimers, here's the federal bicycle law.. I'll let you make up your mind if it has anything to do with gas-powered bikes or not...

http://www.spookytoothcycles.com/content/view/10/25/ said:
-CITE-
15 USC Sec. 2085 01/19/04
-EXPCITE-
TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE
CHAPTER 47 - CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY
-HEAD-
Sec. 2085. Low-speed electric bicycles
-STATUTE-
(a) Construction
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric
bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section
2052(a)(1) of this title and shall be subject to the Commission
regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of
title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.
(b) Definition
For the purpose of this section, the term "low-speed electric
bicycle" means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such
a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less
than 20 mph.

(c) Promulgation of requirements
To further protect the safety of consumers who ride low-speed
electric bicycles, the Commission may promulgate new or amended
requirements applicable to such vehicles as necessary and
appropriate.
(d) Preemption
This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with
respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such
State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or
requirements referred to in subsection (a) of this section.
-SOURCE-
(Pub. L. 92-573, Sec. 38, as added Pub. L. 107-319, Sec. 1, Dec. 4,
2002, 116 Stat. 2776.)
Really... if you want to ride a gas-powered bike, the only possible laws prohibiting you are state, county, & city. Go in order, and if one says they don't have a law, go to the next... If you find out that there is a law, you've found your answer. I'd really just check state & city, but ya never know...

The Fed Gov't should pass a law on a similar gas-powered bicycle law to ease confusion all over, but they're just as st00pit as your locally elected officials.
 

loquin

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#48
The DOT's 'workin on it...' They're just not setting any land speed records!

(here, third page, "A. Vehicles With Speed Capabilities of Less Than 20 mph."
 
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L

Large Filipino

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#49
It's the pedal bikers that give me grief more than the cops. This all mighty biker tried telling me I couldn't ride on the bike trail as I passed him. He was like "YOU CAN'T" That's all I heard.
I'd like to be in front of him one day in the middle of the street riding my bike. Let's see what he says then.
Cops just wave at me. The cops I meet seems to understand.
Colorado law states that dude's right. But most don't mind.
 
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grndslm

Guest
#50
The DOT's 'workin on it...' They're just not setting any land speed records!

(here, third page, "A. Vehicles With Speed Capabilities of Less Than 20 mph."
Problem with that proposal is it was written nearly 3 years ago. Something tells me they have other priorities, so it's not something you should rely on.
 
S

SirJakesus

Guest
#51
It's the pedal bikers that give me grief more than the cops. This all mighty biker tried telling me I couldn't ride on the bike trail as I passed him. He was like "YOU CAN'T" That's all I heard.
I'd like to be in front of him one day in the middle of the street riding my bike. Let's see what he says then.
Cops just wave at me. The cops I meet seems to understand.
Colorado law states that dude's right. But most don't mind.
Thats really funny but as long as you're not being reckless or riding dangerously I don't see what the problem of using bike paths is. They were put there so people walking and biking dont have to risk their lives on congested roads and highways. I don't think anybody in their right mind would force you to use the dangerous street you were previously posting about I just think the pedal pusher didn't like the fact that you passed him on "his" turf. If your engine was wimpy and he passed you easily I'm sure his attitude would have been the opposite. I betcha he was squaking about it all day though.
 
H

Hot Dog Piggy Tails

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#52
Laws

Laws I only have gotten California.ANd it stated that the KW conversion of a motor powered vehicle would only be liscenceable over 49cc.Personal craft or something to this nature.and didnt say the pedals had to work or anything about pedals.
 
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#53
City hall dont acknowledge Federal Laws

I talk to my local city attorney they say they dont honor federal laws can they do this? Isnt that violating the constitutuion?
 
L

Large Filipino

Guest
#54
Thats really funny but as long as you're not being reckless or riding dangerously I don't see what the problem of using bike paths is. They were put there so people walking and biking dont have to risk their lives on congested roads and highways. I don't think anybody in their right mind would force you to use the dangerous street you were previously posting about I just think the pedal pusher didn't like the fact that you passed him on "his" turf. If your engine was wimpy and he passed you easily I'm sure his attitude would have been the opposite. I betcha he was squaking about it all day though.
He was coming towards me from the opposite direction. I shut down my engine 20 feet before he passed me. I was peddling when he passed me.
He was an $%#&%.
 
T

turkeyssr

Guest
#55
On the bike paths around here, it *specifically* states "no motorized bicycles". I have witnessed electric bikes tooling around, but they're silent and probably don't attract attention. Honestly, I understand why they don't want them there, mostly due to perceived speed. However, as a regular bicyclist, I can easily achieve over 20mph solely by pedaling, and that's on a not-so-great (not modern) road bike. I personally don't bust people's chops when I see them riding with motors, because it's not my job and I personally don't care - especially if they're far and away down the path from everyone. I don't think even $5/gal. gas would change the laws. We're resigned to ride on the streets in California.
 
L

Large Filipino

Guest
#56
It's just a matter of time. As we grow and grow,more and more commuters will complain about us hogging their roads and will eventually lead to two scenarios. The first one I hope won't happen. Making Motoredbikes illegal which could possibly happen or just plain allow us to use the bike lanes and paths keeping speeds below 20 MPH.
I think it will be the second scenario. I mean it's beneficial in so many levels. It's such a win win. And the roadies don't own the trails. We all do.
Most of us are overweight as it is.
Were gonna win. Just give it some time.
To those out there with the law against them,let me suggest hogging them roads,make motorists miserable. It would be much more effective when there are many of us using Motoredbikes for our commute to work.
 
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H

Hot Dog Piggy Tails

Guest
#57
Unliscensable

Unliscensable fits an undetermined class of transportation so its to the Officer
I'VE BEEN PULLED OVER AND TRIED TO TELL THEM THE CONVERSION OF kw to HP and they are like ok what did you do.. give me back my ID and tell me you better replace your lights or turn'em on.. or you have to wear Glasses and a helmet, and use turn signals. but as far as them showing a RCW it has no restriction the closest laws .. which will probably be adapted are the 49cc's and under and also the 20mph limit. as far as negigence they could get you for something like that.. so I don't suggest Hogging the road as I just read ha ha I know what he meant hes pro motorized efficiency and so am I I just wanted to clear that up because I dont want some kid to read that and get the wrong Idea and go out there impede traffic and have a passer bye splat him/her down. but yea phillip I ride every where here no prob's I think problems is the only thing that will bring it to attention of THE DUI MACHINE. HA HA .Well definately no offense meant.. were a Team.
 
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sparky

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#58
.. so I don't suggest Hogging the road as I just read ha ha I know what he meant hes pro motorized efficiency and so am I I just wanted to clear that up because I dont want some kid to read that and get the wrong Idea and go out there impede traffic and have a passer bye splat him/her down.
It's nothing to do with motorized efficiency. It's about motorized safety. Around here, where we have 4-lane roads (2 in each direction), it's smarter for someone to not be afraid to take almost half of the rightmost lane. I just ride along the edge of the rightmost lane, but if I know I am about to hit a huge hole AND I don't have enough grass room on the side for backup, I HAVE to take the road over for everyone's safety.

I think the moral of the story is that it depends on the cops & your environment. If the cops understand that you can still pedal away when they try to scold you, it's prolly okay to hog the road. And as long as you're going less than 25mph, most cops prolly won't give a shiz.
 
H

Hot Dog Piggy Tails

Guest
#59
I second that I always make sure Im in the road well before(I know my roads well thank God) the dip,hole, and or what not so I dont cross a line that they wont possibly see or beable to react in time.

yup under 25 Im doin fine!
 

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