Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by eastwoodo4, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. eastwoodo4

    eastwoodo4 Member

    i live in brooksville florida.i got pulled by a trooper 2 days ago who said it was a motor vehichle.said he would arrest me next time[bring it mother fcker].anyways i pedal home and have been looking at the laws.the ones i see say a moped is not a motor vehichle as of 2002.i seen a county cop today and decided to ask him.so i showed him the laws that i copied from the state web site.he said it was awsome and he thinks im right.he also said he couldnt believe he hassled me about it.then he said it was awsome about three more times.then he said lock it up at nite cause of all the theives.im gonna do a little more research and try and talk to dmv.but as far as im conserned im good to go even if i have to beat in court with a jury cause every one seems to like it..over 2 years no problem till this shmuck.i also have a dl which i dont think the shmuck expected.any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

  2. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    I started a thread in Feb "Florida motor cycle laws and definitions",it's worth perusing,although you may not get all that much wiser,I'm afraid.There is massive confusion in Fla.The 'Law' in Tallahassie (definitions) and the State DMV (licensing) don't appear to see eye to eye on various matters,and the poor MB'er gets caught in between.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2009
  3. Esteban

    Esteban Active Member

  4. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    Why did he say he would arrest you for?

    Give us some more details...

    What kind of Motor is it.

    What kind of bike?

    What were you doing when he pulled you over?

    Etc, etc....

    Gives us some facts, and I'll be able to tell you what the deal is.

  5. eastwoodo4

    eastwoodo4 Member

    said he would arrest me for not being registered.and he said i couldnt register it.its a mountian bike. its a friction drive with a 23 cc shindaiwa motor.i was sitting at a light waiting for it to turn when i noticed him making a u turn.i went thru the light and he did to.then he went up turned around and came back towards me.he actually pulled me with his horn.
  6. Gene

    Gene Member

    I do not agree that there is confusion between the law and DMV. The law says a motorized bicycle is not a motor vehicle and the DMV follows that by no issuing plates,titles or registrations to Motorized bicycles. I would follow the links below and print and carry that information with you when you ride. you also may be interested in another thread where the Attorney for Daytona Florida advises that according to state law no local municipality may pass restrictive laws with regards to Motorized bicycles.


    abstract: (27) "Motor vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guideway, excluding vehicles moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in s. (28) "Motor vehicle combination" means a motor vehicle operated in conjunction with one or more other vehicles. (32) "Passenger vehicle" means a motor vehicle designed to transpor more than 15 persons, including the driver, or a school bus designed to ...322.01 Definitions.--As used in this chapter:(27) "Motor vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guideway, excluding vehicles moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in s. 316.003.And The state makes the laws regarding these matters and local govt may not interfere and that includes Sheriff Puffy Pants.the opinion of the opinion of the City Attorney of Daytona Beach with regard to the intent of the lawSubject: Uniform Traffic Control Act, municipalitiesJ. T. FrankenbergerCity AttorneyOn consideration of the foregoing it is clear that the Legislature intended, by its comprehensive action in enacting Ch. 76-286, Laws of Florida, classifying motor-propelled bicycles or 'mopeds' as bicycles and determining how they were to be regulated on a uniform state-wide basis, to require that moped operators or riders be treated as bicycle operators or riders uniformly throughout the state and in all the municipalities therein. The Legislature by enactment of Ch. 316, as amended aforesaid, and by making it unlawful to enact, and prohibiting the enactment or enforcement of, any traffic ordinances in conflict therewith has effectively preempted the regulation of bicycle/mopeds to the state. Furthermore, because moped operators had, prior to such action, been required to wear the same protective devices as other motorcycle riders according to the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, the reclassifying of mopeds as bicycles clearly demonstrates that the Legislature intended that moped riders be relieved of the requirements of wearing such protective devices throughout the state.The Legislature defines a moped as a bicycle in s. 316.003, F. S., and changed the definition of 'bicycle,' 'motorcycle,' and 'motor-driven cycles' and excludes motor-propelled bicycles or 'mopeds' from the definition of 'motor vehicle,' 'motor-driver cycles,' and 'vehicle' by Ch. 76-286, Laws of Florida, as reference to the title thereof clearly discloses, and provides regulations for such motor-propelled bicycles or 'mopeds' in s. 316.111, F. S. In the latter section the Legislature provided special regulations in subsections (14) and (15) applicable only to the operation ofbicycle/mopeds. MoreOn consideration of the foregoing it is clear that the Legislature intended, by its comprehensive action in enacting Ch. 76-286, Laws of Florida, classifying motor-propelled bicycles or 'mopeds' as bicycles and determining how they were to be regulated on a uniform state-wide basis, to require that moped operators or riders be treated as bicycle operators or riders uniformly throughout the state and in all themunicipalities therein.
    http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/in...lsenate.gov/statutes/ind...0322/Sec01.HTMLast edited by Gene; 03-26-2009 at 10:46 AM.Reply With Quote


  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    many times a good THING
    print out and carry copies of state MB laws that are in our favor

    most if not all states have a main State DMV Office
    call them and tell them exactly what you have -- how many cc on a bicycle
    ask them what's required so as to ride ??
    if --- THINGS sound good -- BE SURE to get their name and badge number

    ride that thing
  8. loquin

    loquin Active Member

  9. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    just an FYI....

    This has been discussed at great length. The end answer(s) for it all is this...

    1.). Although not considered a motor vehicle (In terms of titling), you still need at least a regular driver's license to ride it.

    2. It does NOT need to be registered OR title for use on the roads. (Basically that's what all those laws everybody is linking to and talking about not being a motor vehicle are all about.)

    3.) Since it is still considered a bicycle in terms of safety, you need a reflector in the rear (and for night time driving) a front white headlight and a rear red light visible from (I think about) 300 yards away.

    4.) Since it is a moped in terms of driving it around you still need to adhere to traffic laws and you are not allowed to ride it on the sidewalk unless you are only pedaling it.

    If I'm missing anything, I'm sure someone will add it.


    P.S. I would also suggest turn signals and a brake light for night driving as well.
    Oh and he couldn't arrest you for riding it UNLESS you don't have a drivers license (which you stated you have, so you're good to go on that issue.)
    I've NEVER seen anyone get arrested for titling or registration. They COULD impound it but then you would be able to sue the bugessus out of them for wrongful prosecution.

    My .02
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  10. Gene

    Gene Member

    Read the law before pontificating thankyou

    Sangesf please don't hijack the thread or confuse the issue, as your opinions are well known in past threads. And a drivers license is not the issue. If it is not a motor vehicle why would you need a license. If it is a knife and not a gun why would I need a pistol permit? You do not need a license for a bicycle. You do not need a license for a Motorized Bicycle since it is quite clear it is not considered a motor vehicle. What are you suggesting a fishing license?

    Perfect! Loquin that is the document also to add to the others. That document was given me to by DMV in Punta Gorda.
  11. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    sumed up everyTHING very well -- except

    sangesf -- you have sumed up everyTHING very well here -- except

    sueing the **** out of them for wrongful prosecution
    there is not one lawyer around that would wish to take that case
    unless one paid them around 5 thousand dollars up front
    it's a no winner

    no reason to waste time when we can be riding the MB thing
  12. sangesf

    sangesf New Member


    1.) I did NOT hijack any thread.
    As for your knife example, if the knife shot bullets like a gun, then by definition it would be a gun. (It's all in the definitions)

    2.) I didn't say anything about it being an "issue" with a DL, since the OP stated he had one.

    3.) Except for the suing part, those were facts not opinions.

    4.) According to the above law (316.003 part 21), a moped is not considered a "Motor Vehicle" either, BUT, you STILL need a license to ride one in Florida.

    5.) Stop trying to make it personal. Just because you don't like the fact that the second you put gas on a bicycle (except for MAYBE a "pusher trailer" or something similar), you need a license, is not a reason to be a punk about it. It's a FACT, whether you like it or not.

    SHEESH... Stop giving out incorrect information..

    If ANYONE had even the SLIGHTEST worry about the license issue.... Bring your bike (and/or a photo of it) to the local DMV and ask them.. That way there is NO worry.


    P.P.S I'm still looking for someone with that documentation.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  13. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    This Florida DMV publication RS61 is confusing.It purports to deal with licensing and registation reqd's
    1) It does NOT 'define' in any way what constitutes a motorized bicycle,it merely acknowledge their existence,and states it does NOT need to be licensed
    2) It does define a moped in detail: (pedals,below 50cc,below 2 HP,below 30 mph speed
    no clutch or gearshift,autotransmission OK )
    3) a 2 or 3 wheeled motor driven vehicle that does not fit the definition of a moped is considered a 'motorcycle'(for instance a motor scooter)
    4) It has NOTHING to say how MB's are to be treated except the licensing is not required it seems it would like to pretend they do not exist and is is mute on titling or insurance requirements
    What might it mean?.par 3),states that an MB with more than 50cc displacement or caught doing more than 30mph is a motorcycle as far as the DMV is concerned.Since it is not a moped.That it does not look like one, might well be beside the point.That means the whole schmeer (license ,plates,lights etc).You might have to prove that it is a moped.The question remains:
    what if anything is a motorized bicycle according to the DMV ??,good question.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2009
  14. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    According to the definitions in the 316.003 part 2 a Motorized Bicycle utilizes an electric motor, and gas is not mentioned in that definition.

    The REAL question (not to me, but to others) is as to whether a bicycle with an added gas motor is a Moped or not (in terms of drivers licensing).

    What is REALLY wanted by some is a definition SPECIFICALLY DEFINING what a gas bicycle is.

    RS61 is about license plates and nothing else.

    Trust me, the laws are DEFINITELY confusing, there are specific laws for specific aspects of everything. All of it is spelled out in the other thread about MB's and Florida law. Check there for specifics, except for the aforementioned gas bicycle.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  15. Gene

    Gene Member

    I offered no opinions only cited law and dmv documents. You however continue to act like you are Louis Nizer. Someone you could never even pretend to be. Calling me a punk is not playing nice. Face it buddy, Not everyone appreciates your rants every time Florida Law threads are posted here. Maybe you should get a degree and get back to us like real quick like. Yea and by the way the law is not too mute when it says that Motorized bicycles are excluded in the definition. We are not talking about Mopeds duh
  16. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    I was using the Moped part of it as a rebuttal to you talking about (GAS Powered) bicycles not needing a drivers license just because they are not "Motor Vehicle"s.... well a Moped is not a "Motor Vehicle" either, but you still need a license for it and you know that's why I brought it up, please don't try to confuse the issue.

    And in reply to your reply about the "punk" part, well face it, you WERE acting like one and you started it, and the part about opinion, I made no statement that you were using opinion, I said I was NOT using opinion but law. All of the laws that have been cited for use in arguments about not needing a DL for a Gas Powered bicycles have been laws NOT DESCRIBING ANYTHING ABOUT MOTOR VEHICLE DRIVERS LICENSING, but ARE describing EVERYTHING else. (e.g. License Plates, Tags, Registration, etc, etc.)

    And I never said I was a Lawyer, but I do know how to read and although the laws ARE confusing, I have talked to MANY at the HSMV (and their governing body, the Bureau of Field Operations), the State Legislature group, State Statute group, Sheriff's Offices, and a few others, including the office of the AG. And every single one of them says, if you have a bicycle with a gas motor on it, you need a DL to ride it on public roads.
    The only exemption for not needing a DL (for purposes of our discussion) is a "Motorized Bicycle" and that is Defined as having an ELECTRIC motor and not gas.
    As a matter fact, in those terms, when describing the Vehicle being used (i.e. A bicycle with a gas motor under 50cc's) under the definitions used in the STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL (i.e. That's the laws describing vehicles (or their exemptions) that you need a DL for use on a public road (and other laws pertaining to public roads)) that the description of a bicycle with a gas motor is the same as the definition as a moped and hence, since you need a license to ride a Moped on a public road, you need one for a gas powered Bicycle too. Quoted below is the applicable part of the SUTC...
    And I'm still waiting on that Documentation from ANYONE with whom they have paperwork from a DMV official stating that you don't need a license for a Bicycle with a gas motor on it. That's the end all of everything, right there. Get me that and I'll shut up forever. (According to you that should be EASY)
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  17. Gene

    Gene Member

    abstract: (27) "Motor vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guideway, excluding vehicles moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in s.
    You say
    well a Moped is not a "Motor Vehicle" either,
    Where does it say a Moped is not a motor vehicle?
    Clearly it is because it has not been excluded as motorized bicycles have been in the above definition.
  18. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    As far as I am concerned,logically if an MB does not meet the definition of a moped and is not powered electrically,it is a motor cycle,for licensing,according to the letter of the DMV pronouncements.Alternatively since it is a MB, it is not required to be licensed.So it is an motorcycle which does not require licensing,which is not allowed either.An MB is only defined in a negative sense i.e. What it is NOT ,not what it is.They don't want to have anything to do with them really.What the cops make of all of this,who knows?.But there is prob. enough confusion to beat a citation,arm yourself with helpful documents&try not to attract untoward attention
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2009
  19. crazy4life

    crazy4life New Member

    I'v seen a couple guys in my town with them and they dont have their licenses. They have been pulled over before but im with everybody who says you dont need a license to have a MB
  20. eastwoodo4

    eastwoodo4 Member

    ok monday im gonna call someone who knows and see if u have to register mopeds in this state still.from what ive found mopeds arent motor vehicles in this state.but you might still have to register them.a motorized bicycle is described as an electric bike.so my bike actually fits a moped more than a bike.so if i have to register a moped ill have to register this.