Fooey on Hoots - clutch bell destructed after 60 miles

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by Vishnu Tensleep, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. First, let me say that Mike Simpson warned me about his experience with the Hoot gb and clutch, as did many others on this site...

    Long story short, Hoot gb with gear oil lasted about 60 miles before the clutch bell split into a ring and a disk (supposed to be one piece of metal, not two.) :-x

    As if that wasn't enough, the teeth on the small gear mounted on the outside of the bell housing were worn to smithereens, so even if I was foolish enough to replace the clutch bell, I'd have to replace that gear too. Maybe because the clutch was decompensating, maybe because it is crummy metal.

    In summary, fooey on Hoots, I say. I'm not a Sinophobe, but I do think that rotten fruit ends and other putrescesibles should be cast at whoever makes these things, regardless of their nationality, race, creed, religion, sexual or psychosomatic orientation, or musical preferences.

  2. Clutch blues

    Hi Tensleep. I have obtained a Grube gearbox (new), tho a shim would need to be made for your engine (easy deal on lathe) it would otherwise work with the rest of your kit (might need bigger rear sprocket, tho I'm not sure). It is for sale.

    If a 50th sprocket were correct, this I do have. If this seems to be the right thing for you, PM or call me. I am not finished with my project, so that is not yet an option, tho the Grube can be a sucess, seeing that Houghmade, and Irish John and others ride them.

    I will recieve 6 Hoot boxes (new take-off's from prototypes for project) in the next few days, and it is easy for me to see if they have the improved clutch bell that Cruiser66 has on his sucessful HS/JL bike. These will be offered for sale.

    IF the hoot boxes are the improved model, they might be a good solution, as they MAY be the correct output shaft size, and would be less expensive.

    Let me know if this seems the right path. I am impressed by the engine, and depressed by the transmission system, which is exactly why I am in developement.

    I am NOT prepared to discuss what I think is te best way to resolve the transmission problems, as I am not finished with prototyping, and am not yet in field-testing.

    I have enlisted the help of some well-known (and technically adept)characters to be sure that I am not pounding sand up a wet rope, and the opinions of all involved will shape the new product to an acceptable product, presumabably free of defects, and certainly skipping the stage of "Microsofting", that is, beta testing on the retail customer base.

    We expect to soon offer to the community, a logical alternative to the wet-clutch, noisy gearboxes, offered with the little 49cc IC engines, both Honda and the more reasonable little HS.

    To all, are your appetites whetted?

  3. Grube gearbox-sold

    Yup title says it all


  4. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    I an content with my Honda/Grubee...content, but never satisfied.

    My appetite is indeed whetted.
  5. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    I am very interested. Because of this latest hold up for the new Grubee gearboxes, I was unable to get what I wanted for the summer. It's doubtful that I'll be in the market for a motor again until next spring, just because I don't want to break in a bike during a harsh Chicago winter.

    With the new Grubee box, a new offering from Dax, and then this, it looks like I'll have a tough decision to make.

    Mike, are you making an all-in-one kit offering that includes a mounting bracket and so forth, or is this just a gearbox?
  6. New Kit

    Hi Sjackson, what I will be offerring, when fully tested, will be HS engine kit MINUS the Hoot, with a Non-geared transmission system.

    Yes a complete kit. We must test fully before release. It will also accept the gx50

  7. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    Like a belt? because that would definitely pique my interest. sign me up!
  8. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Well Vishnu I became a confirmed sinophobe after trying to build things in China but my experience with their bike engine kits has only strengthened my opinion. I too have a Hoot GB and won't dare use it until I get a proper shim for the bell housing. Warren at ZBox is sending me an alloy one that he's received from China so time will tell. The 44T rear sprocket is woefully inadequate for the engine GB setup but that's no different from the Grubee guys offering a 56T as standard which most people find at least 6 teeth too big. These guys are the pits no two ways about it. They don't ride their kits so they don't know what's wrong and they don't care. A few apologists on these pages will disagree with me but I don't like a bike that isn't reliable. I'll soon be able to test the Hoot GB when I find a bike I'm prepared to buy that fits that fixed length engine tray. I'm expecting the bell housing to fail pretty quickly because it's such a shonky piece of engineering. In an ideal world consumer protection authorities would do a total product recall on these shonky items. Incidentally the Grubee suppliers are all offering the really nasty and cheap 3 piece cranks now with no option to get the nice neat one piece cranks they used to supply. If this is progress I don't think so. These guys don't give a hoot about us and will foist whatever crud upon us that they think we will take without complaint.
    I have been very convinced since building the Fosscati FG4 Billinudgel Bullet, described on a separate thread, that a Grubee kit can be great if you make a few changes. The first is run the GB with good lithium grease. Second spend a long time setting up the absolutely best drivechain alignment on a cruiser bike (& only on a cruiser bike). Third you need springer forks or other front suspension. Use hub gears so the pedal chain stays constantly tight, use a really good rear axle and bearings, lastly use a Honda motor cos the difference is devastatingly noticeable especially if the chain is set up nicely and the rear sprocket has no wobble. Don't use a bike that hasn't got really good brakes front & rear. With all this I get my heavy steel Schwinn to cruise at 53 km\hr with room to spare and fly up twisting hills at 45 km\hr. The HS won't come near this even on a light alloy Schwinn.
    The Honda drives a bit like a car.
  9. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    I'm hoping the next generation Hoots will be more "robust" cos i like the look of them....the new Grubees are coming out soon so hopefually Hoot will keep pace.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2008
  10. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Yes Fetor they may revamp the bearing for the clutch bell and Warren at ZBox certainly wants them to. He carries a bit of clout with them cos he is their biggest importer (albeit of 2-strokes). That Hoot kit also has a fixed drive sprocket and I'm not sure how good or bad that it is yet cos I've not tried it but the rear sprocket needs to be somwhere in the 36 - 38T I'm told if you want the bike to cruise at a resonable speed. I'm getting the new alloy shaft bushing this week from Zbox and I'll post some pictures of it. Since I got a Honda motor I can't believe the difference in pulling power and although I like the HS I must say I really do like the Honda a lot more. Do you run grease or oil or a mixture in your GB?
  11. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    New Hoot shim bearing

    I got the new Hoot shim bearing which is made of some sort of light alloy. I've attached a picture of it. I've not bothered using it because the old one looks good enough. I've packed the shim with lithium grease which hopefully will stay in there in enough quantity to serve as permanent lubrication. Reading about the brittle or soft nature of the gear cogwheels is very disturbing and I wouldn't want to set up the home blacksmiths solution described above just because I firmly believe that for the price they ask for the gearbox it should be suitable for the purposes for which it is intended. Far better to keep harassing your supplier until eventually something is done at source to rectify the problem. I now firmly believe in the tackiest lithium grease you can find as the best GB lubrication. The Hoot GB is an experiment for me and I am not expecting much from it which means my level of resentment might be lowered along with my expectations but I still think I'll blow my top when the gearbox blows its top. My guess is that it will lose gear teeth and then disintegrate or the bell housing will split off from the shaft and it will disintegrate that way. I still haven't run the kit because I haven't found a bike that fits that fixed length engine mounting tray and my aesthetic sensibilities won't allow me to mount a 4-stroke on a mountain bike frame.
    I'll probably use one of the chinese cruisers specially made for these kits when they arrive in Australia sometime soon. They have a front disc brake and a rear drum brake and rear V-brake and 14g spokes. Also need to get the right sprocket for the Hoot cos, just like the Grubee, it comes with a rear sprocket 6 to 8 teeth too large. I now know that a Grubee\Honda goes best on a 48T and a Grubee\HS on a 50T. Does anyone know the best size for the Hoot\HS? It certainly is less than 44T it comes with that's for sure.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2008