frustrated sometimes

JerboaJohn

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Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
1,272
gads, just a gripe session lol. I'm fighting my current project so much and trying to get good parts for the money but building from scratch actually is more than just picking parts and click on 'buy it'. some vendors are a bit slow, others won't tell you particular details that r critical. like my ghettobike hub dude wouldn't tell me any dimensions and I waited weeks to get it, measured it 3x to be sure and plugged it in to Prowheelbuilder calc, then found someone with Sapim spokes in custom length so I ordered spokes n nipples. (front wheel too but that was cake; it turned out great.) I had to crank the nipples way too much to get any tension on the back so the calc was wrong by 2.5mm or 3 even tho I round off the decimal I coulda used 3mm shorter on both sides. that's only half of it. it took couple weeks to find decent rims w/ 36 spokes and I couldn't get em for 12g spokes. actually I got 13g and they wouldn't fit ughh. Oh plus I tried to do 4 cross for the rear bcs I need max strength. but it's not possible on 99% of any hub ever made except some exotic front hub bcs the spoke will hit the hub it's so tangent.
Anyways, it's not cut n dried putting a great mb together. you're not just spinning a wrench. You'll have much time and fighting it, trying to get parts to fit ( grinding dropouts for 1/2" axle lol) AND sometimes parts don't exactly matchup.
god I got too much in this build I started in Sep. still need brakes, seat, seatpost, paint, bars, levers/cables and a lot more time and effort,,
phew!
 


Will'smotobikes19

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Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
1,653
Yeah spokes are tricky. I like my mag wheels they have been good so far. The only thing I’m worried about is the Chinese wheel bearings but I could upgrade those. Mag wheels also give more of a 80’s moped look and pretty much all modern motorcycles use mag wheels. I think spokes are ok but most Walmart bikes come with crappy thin ones.
 

FurryOnTheInside

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Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
3,592
Crappy spokes and thin spokes are two separate things.

I am certain that your wheel is stronger with the 13g you used than it would have been with 12g..
And butted 13/14g Sapim Strong would have been even stronger..
And triple butted 13/15/14g DT Swiss Alpine III would be even stronger than that!
Its about the elasticity.

There are some bicycle rims drilled for 12g spokes (marketed as ebike rims) but they are not able to build a decent strong wheel. The tension needed to stretch the spokes would be damaging to the delicate bicycle wheel rim. Motorcycle/moped rims are strong enough to take that tension, but they only fit motorcycle tyres which weigh a ton.
If a spoke isn't stretched (within the elastic limit) then it can't take up any of the slack created by the rim flexing under load. The spoke at the bottom goes loose when you roll the bike, and/or hit a bump or pothole. The spokes going loose and tight, loose and tight all the time will cause the spokes to break at the elbow, and/or the nipple to unscrew, and/or the nipple to strike the rim repeatedly.
The whole thing about 12g spokes us they need a massive rim to make them work. Anything made for bicycles, tandems, or even pedicabs requires 14g or thinner for the majority of the length of the spoke. The elbow and thread can be made thicker if the holes in the hub and rim are suitable.

4x pattern is fine for 48 spoke wheels but with only 36 spokes, even if you didn't have the problem with the spokes interfering with the head of the adjacent spoke, the overly tangential direction of the nipple in the rim would require the rim to be dimpled and drilled in the tangetial direction of the spoke, not radially as they usually are.
If you have radial holes in the rim then either the nipple is only supported at one edge or the spoke is bent at the end of the thread which causes failure.

Everyone should read Jobst Brandt.
 

Will'smotobikes19

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Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
1,653
On Wednesday it’s going to be a high of 2 degrees in the daytime. Gotta love Canadia and the Great Lakes A? I’m ready to start driving south. But at this point I’d have to build my own shack or something with how little money I have. Most likely going to stay single. I have people problems and it seems I’m attracted to the “bad girls”. Anyways it would be an adventure and since I was raised soft you could say I don’t think my mom is kicking me out anytime soon.
 

Timbone

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Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,104
If the spokes are too long and you are desperate to make it work, you can make spacers out of small hex nuts by drilling them out just enough to allow the spoke nipple to ride along the inside of the spacer. Not too hard to make 36 spacers with a drill press.
 

FurryOnTheInside

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
3,592
A 16" motorcycle or moped tire can fit a 20" bicycle rim, so a 20" bicycle tire should fit a 16" moped or motorcycle rim just fine if it is wide enough.
I was under the impression that the bead of the moped rim wasn't compatible with the bead of the BMX tyre.. But I don't remember where I got that idea from.
Worth checking out, I guess, if 20" wheels (and no rim brakes) are acceptable. :)
 

JerboaJohn

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Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
1,272
I went ahead and got spoke washers bcs they are lighter than a home remedy using little nuts. I never thought of that,, keepin it in mind. tho I'm tempted to just buy shorter double butted spokes. oh and I f'd up my steerer tube yesterday lol (a booboo I cut too much).
rough week I'll tell ya
jeepers it's cold OMG the big freeze coming in
 

Tony01

Active Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
250
gads, just a gripe session lol. I'm fighting my current project so much and trying to get good parts for the money but building from scratch actually is more than just picking parts and click on 'buy it'. some vendors are a bit slow, others won't tell you particular details that r critical. like my ghettobike hub dude wouldn't tell me any dimensions and I waited weeks to get it, measured it 3x to be sure and plugged it in to Prowheelbuilder calc, then found someone with Sapim spokes in custom length so I ordered spokes n nipples. (front wheel too but that was cake; it turned out great.) I had to crank the nipples way too much to get any tension on the back so the calc was wrong by 2.5mm or 3 even tho I round off the decimal I coulda used 3mm shorter on both sides. that's only half of it. it took couple weeks to find decent rims w/ 36 spokes and I couldn't get em for 12g spokes. actually I got 13g and they wouldn't fit ughh. Oh plus I tried to do 4 cross for the rear bcs I need max strength. but it's not possible on 99% of any hub ever made except some exotic front hub bcs the spoke will hit the hub it's so tangent.
Anyways, it's not cut n dried putting a great mb together. you're not just spinning a wrench. You'll have much time and fighting it, trying to get parts to fit ( grinding dropouts for 1/2" axle lol) AND sometimes parts don't exactly matchup.
god I got too much in this build I started in Sep. still need brakes, seat, seatpost, paint, bars, levers/cables and a lot more time and effort,,
phew!
Have you tried hitting it with your purse?
 
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