Gas/electric in frame project started

Discussion in 'Electric Bicycles' started by professor, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. professor

    professor Active Member

    Got bored last night, so I dragged the bike in to diddle with switching the rear rim to a 24. Here is a pic. It is an old Huffy moutain, now with a 24 inch sus.front end (snagged from another project). The frame is legnthened 3 inches,
    I didn't know if I could fit the stuff in the frame, so 3 looked like a good number.

    This will be an e-bike with an onboard gen-set. (It will be able to run off batterys even without the engine on for a little while, if needed) - No range issues with this e-bike, also batterys should last a long time because there will be no depletion cycles- just like a car.

    I am using the H.F. 2.5hp because it is the smallest new 4 stroke at a cost I can live with.
    Put some pull-back bars on it.
    The Delco alternator now has a 24v regulator from a vendor on Ebay.
    Stock pulley on the alternator and a 4 inch on the engine. Pulls over fine.
    I made a little tray for the 2 batterys and the controller will fit right under that.

    I was hemming and hawing about wether to go to friction drive on the 450watt motor or chain. Being that I will use the scooter #25 chain to an intermediate hub, I may as well do the full chain drive like I did on my mongoose.

    I had to cut about an inch off the engine output shaft to narrow the deal as much as possible.

    I also had no intention of getting this far with the build (spring is a long way off) but the holidays gave me a lot of time to tinker.

    Next, the exhaust will sweep up over the engine into a muffler I will make that will go in the frame section behind the engine. It needs to be real quiet. Even though it will be completely legal, the engine will be undercover.

    By the way, I put the bike up on a table and lash it from tipping with one of those ratcheting straps- wonderful way to work, weld, paint or whatever(wind the strap 2 times around the top tube and it won't tip).

  2. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    That looks nice.....looks like it belongs there. At least you have some weight over the front. That's always been one of my problems....front end light. OK if you like wheelies, bad on ice and snow. :devilish:
  3. arkives1

    arkives1 Member

    Gas/electric in frame

    Hey Professor, I like it. I considered a dual drive on one of my bikes as well but was just going to have an option of electric or gas, not charging as I rode but it's a great idea. How do you like that little HF engine? Is it a noisy engine with the stock muffler? I also wondered about how to work the throttle. I just looked at one this morning for a future build. Might even consider swapping out the HT on my chopper project. Woody
  4. professor

    professor Active Member

    My opinion of the HF is it is a super deal, seems real well made, little things like chrome bolts for the tank, castings that are very good appearing.
    The engine is fairly quiet.
    The muffler and pipe feeding it are more elaborate than what I expected (won't be using either though- would have to cut them up and should it need to be taken back for warranty would be likely rejected- would have liked to use it though).

    The only thing I had trouble with was figuring out the labeling on the on/off switch. Did you ever pull start like crazy, only to decide to throw the switch the other way and have it fire right up?

    The throttle is easy. There is a spring loaded screw that puts drag on the lever so the arm will stay put. You back off the bolt until the throttle just snaps back to idle. Drill a hole in it and rig up a cable to the hole.
    I will have to experiment with throttle settings for keeping the batterys up and motor response.

    Denny- the last time I fell off a bike was when I caught a rut in the snow about 48 years ago. put a small gash in my leg landing on a broken bottle. I am kind of leery about riding in the snow.
  5. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Aaaargh, funny you should mention that. I just got back from a maybe 30 mile jaunt. It is snowing, and about half way through I kind of decided a bike was not the way to go. About that time a state snow plow truck came by, and the wash blew me right off the road and into a bridge rail. Broke the anchor for the rack mount (sheared off two 1/4x20 bolts.) I managed to find a piece of wire on the road and wired it together enough to make it home. I wasn't hurt, just soaked and slush covered, but the tail light was broken, and I'll have to straighten the rack out a bit. Little engine was still running laying there upside down. I must admit that I am impressed with the abuse this setup can absorb and still keep going. First thing I click on is your warning. :sweatdrop:
  6. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    It looks like you could make a great board tracker out of it also.
  7. professor

    professor Active Member

    I agree, must be the stretch that does it, but I really don't want the engine to show. Reason is that gas engines have never been legal here and I don't want any attention drawn to an open engine.
    It will have what looks like a frame bag around the engine with a smaller bag on top (like a tank bag on a motorcycle) to house the gastank.
    I do like the boardtrack look but my back would never take the riding position.
    Which is also the reason people with a messed up back might think more than once about a chopper style ride, where your feet are out ahead of you. When a big bump comes- you get nailed, as you can't offset the shock with your legs.
  8. Youngbird

    Youngbird Member

    Im not an electric guy by any stretch, but I gotta say that is smooth. It looks nice and it seems like a good idea!
  9. professor

    professor Active Member

    Thanks for the comments guys.
    Here is a nice way to work on bikes- it's up on a folding table, strapped down. The pony clamp on the back tire keep it upright while strapping and also keeps it from rolling.
    Wow. Two victories today, first-the back rim I just got done lacing and put on the bike (used the hub from a 26 into a 24 inch rim) and second-I figured out that my pics were too big (that I was trying unsucessfully) to attach- used the e-mail size setting in the camera and wham -- they work!

    Attached Files:

  10. professor

    professor Active Member

    This weekend was re-lace back hub to 24 inch rim and muffler instal.
    Here are pics of the half of the canister that comes from the head pipe and a pic of the other half with fiberglas insert and flex pipe going down.
    Then a shot of the completed muff.
    I sprayed some starting fluid into the carb to fire it up a bit and it has a fairly quiet exhaust note. If I want it quieter still, there is room for a mower muff down below where the flex pipe goes into the frame.

    Attached Files:

  11. robin bird

    robin bird Member

    Professor i think its only a matter of time in our area that they crack down on gas bikes but if a subaru robin which i now have only was used to charge batteries you could stop every 30-40 miles in a comfortable area ( which i do anyway) fire it up while stationary get charged shut it of cover engine( so they dont think that is propelling you) and away we go. i think ill have to reinvent my wheels !
  12. professor

    professor Active Member

    Really great idea there Robin! But what batterys can go that far? Not mine for sure. And I think, as long as you are not moving it would be quite OK.
  13. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Good idea, especially with the improving battery technology. That was kind of my original idea when I did my trailer mount hybrid set up, but the range vs recharge time wasn't practical. I just ran it continuously as long as nobody complained. With some of the batteries coming out now, it would be worth a try again. I think as long as the charger has to be plougged in, and it is removable from the trailer, it just becomes cargo, and the gas part doesn't apply. Almost any judge would have to agree, and the police would have to use some imagination to arrest you for charging your batteries at a stand still. I mean, what is the difference if you run a charger or plug into an is still an electric bike. You are bringing your charger with you either way.

    Professor, I like your muffler. Exhaust seems to be the biggest problem with that just comes out in an inconvenient place.
  14. Its more like stop every 5 miles to recharge. Nice looking bike.
  15. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    7 in my case actually. :jester:
  16. arkives1

    arkives1 Member

    Gas/electric in frame project

    I expect we'll see crack downs all over the country eventually, I also believe that the main reason will be that a few idiots will roar around making as much noise as possible and/or speeding. We can hope that our efforts to educate the public about our bikes will have a positive influence on laws being passed. I hear a lot more noisy motorcycles and car stereos than I do bicycles. My snowblower and lawnmower make more noise. Hmmm I wonder about a discrimination claim? I live in Milwaukee, WI, home of the mighty Harley Davidson, there are thousands of them in our streets so my bike shouldn't be heard over that roar. Last year the number one complaint to the police here was noise from booming stereos, not bikes of any kind. Noise ordinances have been only partly effective. Woody
  17. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Yep, people tend to be more accepting of "normal". Unusual tends to stimulate the mind whether positively or negatively. We need more MAB' least two in every pot...uh garage. :jester:
  18. mabman

    mabman Member

  19. professor

    professor Active Member

    Denny- on the muffler, I mounted the engine so the cyliner area would go UP and forward in the frame to get it away from my knees and feet as much as possible (not knowing exactly how room I really need).
    If the engine were spun 180 -like a normal belt or chain drive, the stock exhaust would be pointed perfectly back and would only need a stub attached to a pipe to route it rearward.
    I would have loved to do that, utilizing the stock muff + another one I would add for super quietness. But did not want to risk having the engine too far back toward me.

    One big feature of this engine is, I think that it will make enough juice at a very fast idle to do the charging. A 2 stroke could never do that.
  20. You can turn the head around on a 2-stroke and put carb in front and muffler on the rear. And i wouldnt underestimate a 2-stroke with it comes to power and rpms.