Gas V Electric "the great debate"

Nikoliki

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Location
Tyler, Texas
I'm curious of everyone thoughts on gas v electric in terms of reliability?

I have had a hueshang 53cc motor on a beach cruiser for a while now. While i have had alot of fun with it, everytime I turn around, I'm tearing the thing apart and fixing something. From the research the 4 stroke should have been a touch more reliable than a two stroke (never have owned a 2 stroker either)

Outside of motor issues, I can't seem to keep a rim true with bending it somewhere.

The ebike set up from frame to rims to tires seems alot sturdier and possibly way more reliable for everyday use.

My goal is to find a bike to drive to work on nice days and let the truck sit a bit but without adding the extra cost an actual motorcycle would entail with insurance, registration, and all.
I work and live in the same 10 mile radius everyday so distance isn't a huge factor.
 
Ahh, the age old debate. I say it all comes down to the builder and quality of parts. To solve your wheel issue you need better quality wheels with a disc brake hub to bolt the sprocket on, and your biggest issue has probably been drivetrain related (clutch/chain issues) and not really engine issues.
 
Ahh, the age old debate. I say it all comes down to the builder and quality of parts. To solve your wheel issue you need better quality wheels with a disc brake hub to bolt the sprocket on, and your biggest issue has probably been drivetrain related (clutch/chain issues) and not really engine issues.

I know bike berry doesn't have top of the line quality items. However, I've been using their spoked rims where I can bolt on the sprocket on.

My main issues have been timing and transmission related issues. Due to not having a better option than buying a new trans I just rebuilt it and had to use some jb weld to hold part of it together. I'm aware how that is not a long term fix. The larger outer pulley and shaft were made with some soft metals and the square key bore out the shaft and the pully. The clutch will be it's whole issue at some point, I noticed how the clutch and the square key looked welded together. And then part of my timing issue is that my valves keep coming loose about every 5-10 miles so I have to keep lashing them over and over.
 
Though in most locations in the state of Texas the police could care less about your motorized bicycle as long as you obey the traffic laws.

However, all it takes is a gung-ho individual who knows the law to cause you to have a bad day. The only self-built gas vehicle Texas allows on their public roadways is a motor-assisted scooter. It can't be over 35cc, go faster than 35 mph, and can't be on a road with a speed limit over 35 mph.

Vehicles falling into the moped classification must be made by a certified manufacturer. A list of certified manufacturers is put out every 90 days. You'll need a driver's license, insurance, and registration. Something similar to what's in the picture is what you can build using 35cc engine.

With an electric bicycle you're allowed up to 750 watts. No license, registration, or insurance is needed.

H3c46622c355447538311c895bc55c26d8.jpg_300x300.jpg
 
I'm curious of everyone thoughts on gas v electric in terms of reliability?

I have had a hueshang 53cc motor on a beach cruiser for a while now. While i have had alot of fun with it, everytime I turn around, I'm tearing the thing apart and fixing something. From the research the 4 stroke should have been a touch more reliable than a two stroke (never have owned a 2 stroker either)

Outside of motor issues, I can't seem to keep a rim true with bending it somewhere.

The ebike set up from frame to rims to tires seems alot sturdier and possibly way more reliable for everyday use.

My goal is to find a bike to drive to work on nice days and let the truck sit a bit but without adding the extra cost an actual motorcycle would entail with insurance, registration, and all.
I work and live in the same 10 mile radius everyday so distance isn't a huge factor.
You ought to be able to get the results you are looking for using a Staton F/D with either a 2, of 4 stroke Japanese motor. There's no motor torque load on the spokes which should help with your wheel problems. And when using a High Quality motor the rig should be as reliable as a non motorized bike and lighter than an E bike.
 
And then part of my timing issue is that my valves keep coming loose about every 5-10 miles so I have to keep lashing them over and over.
Valve lash coming loose every 5-10 miles? Are you sure they are coming loose? Sounds more like the cam and/or lifters are starting to wear at an accelerated rate. If the lash adjuster jam nuts are tight an the gap keeps opening up, this would be the real issue, in my experience. Generally speaking, as long as the cam and lifters don't wear most valve lash gaps shrink over time due to the valve face wearing into the seat and the seat being worn down along with it to some degree.

If I had to guess, you have been running that engine with a modern 4 cycle oil that has very low zinc levels, and the HuaSheng 53cc uses a single lobe cam with solid tappet cam followers that actuate the pushrods. Since this is a solid tappet cam system you need to run a zinc additive, or an oil with a high level of zinc in it like Rotella T4 or T6, otherwise you will experience accelerated cam and tappet wear - a sign of which is constantly widening valve lash gaps.

On the plus side, if that is the case, a new cam setup with almost every part you need is $20.

As far as the Electric bike vs. gas.

I finally got my first e-bike after 10 years of running 2 strokes. I want to qualify my position on the premise that I am speaking from a broadly "legal" point of view, which is not going to take local/state laws into consideration, but as a whole applies to most of the country. That means I am going to compare 50cc 2 or 4 stroke gas engines to a 750W e-bike.

A legal e-bike has a top speed of 20mph on throttle only operation, but is allowed to go faster with pedal assist. A top speed of a typical 750W e-bike with an unlocked Pedal Assist mode will see between 25-30mph in the highest assist mode, which matches the capability of most 50cc gas bike kits (both 2 and 4 stroke). What you sacrifice with the e-bike is either cost, or range. My bike has a 20ah battery, but can only manage maybe 30 miles in PAS5 on throttle only, and I can maintain about 25mph if I pedal assist in PAS4 or 5, and maybe extend that range 5-10 miles (Large me, large bike, and large fat tires). Once that battery is drained I am looking at a 6-8 hour charge time.

Now, if I put it in PAS2 or PAS3, I can peddle assist and maintain 15-20mph with a range of approximately 45-55 miles. It's the greatest compromise of speed and range, but does mean I have to pedal. It's not a ton of work mind you, and is good for your cardio health, but still requires more effort and still eventually needs that long charge time.

You can get batteries that come with fast chargers, which reduce that charge time to just a couple of hours, but those chargers also put more strain in the cells in the battery which reduces the lifespan of said battery. Good batteries are not cheap, some of them cost more than my last gas bike build, which was not a budget build either.

The cost difference for a good bike with a bigger battery is also double to triple that of most typical gas bike builds using quality parts, and just like any cheap bike on the market, the cheaper bikes out there - including those in the $1000-1500 range - tend to have the same budget parts and construction that require upgrading, work, or attention/adjustments that need to be kept on top of just like with every bike.

For $1000-1500 I could invest into Gemini Wheels to avoid most of the wheel problems, and use a quality/durable steel frame. The transmission issues are going to be more difficult to resolve, but some of that will come down to the quality of the transmission. What transmission are you using?

Then there is the biggest advantage of the gas bikes - greater range and no waiting to recharge.
 
Though in most locations in the state of Texas the police could care less about your motorized bicycle as long as you obey the traffic laws.

However, all it takes is a gung-ho individual who knows the law to cause you to have a bad day. The only self-built gas vehicle Texas allows on their public roadways is a motor-assisted scooter. It can't be over 35cc, go faster than 35 mph, and can't be on a road with a speed limit over 35 mph.

Vehicles falling into the moped classification must be made by a certified manufacturer. A list of certified manufacturers is put out every 90 days. You'll need a driver's license, insurance, and registration. Something similar to what's in the picture is what you can build using 35cc engine.

You are absolutely correct about electric. However, the according to the state of Texas you cannot surpass 50cc to stay legal without titling, insurance, and license.

I've been driving my 53cc around town no problem. Cops don't care around here as long your "bicycle" stays under the required mph so I can't go faster than 30mph which my bike can only hit 30 going down hill.
 

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Valve lash coming loose every 5-10 miles? Are you sure they are coming loose? Sounds more like the cam and/or lifters are starting to wear at an accelerated rate. If the lash adjuster jam nuts are tight an the gap keeps opening up, this would be the real issue, in my experience. Generally speaking, as long as the cam and lifters don't wear most valve lash gaps shrink over time due to the valve face wearing into the seat and the seat being worn down along with it to some degree.

If I had to guess, you have been running that engine with a modern 4 cycle oil that has very low zinc levels, and the HuaSheng 53cc uses a single lobe cam with solid tappet cam followers that actuate the pushrods. Since this is a solid tappet cam system you need to run a zinc additive, or an oil with a high level of zinc in it like Rotella T4 or T6, otherwise you will experience accelerated cam and tappet wear - a sign of which is constantly widening valve lash gaps.

On the plus side, if that is the case, a new cam setup with almost every part you need is $20.

As far as the Electric bike vs. gas.

I finally got my first e-bike after 10 years of running 2 strokes. I want to qualify my position on the premise that I am speaking from a broadly "legal" point of view, which is not going to take local/state laws into consideration, but as a whole applies to most of the country. That means I am going to compare 50cc 2 or 4 stroke gas engines to a 750W e-bike.

A legal e-bike has a top speed of 20mph on throttle only operation, but is allowed to go faster with pedal assist. A top speed of a typical 750W e-bike with an unlocked Pedal Assist mode will see between 25-30mph in the highest assist mode, which matches the capability of most 50cc gas bike kits (both 2 and 4 stroke). What you sacrifice with the e-bike is either cost, or range. My bike has a 20ah battery, but can only manage maybe 30 miles in PAS5 on throttle only, and I can maintain about 25mph if I pedal assist in PAS4 or 5, and maybe extend that range 5-10 miles (Large me, large bike, and large fat tires). Once that battery is drained I am looking at a 6-8 hour charge time.

Now, if I put it in PAS2 or PAS3, I can peddle assist and maintain 15-20mph with a range of approximately 45-55 miles. It's the greatest compromise of speed and range, but does mean I have to pedal. It's not a ton of work mind you, and is good for your cardio health, but still requires more effort and still eventually needs that long charge time.

You can get batteries that come with fast chargers, which reduce that charge time to just a couple of hours, but those chargers also put more strain in the cells in the battery which reduces the lifespan of said battery. Good batteries are not cheap, some of them cost more than my last gas bike build, which was not a budget build either.

The cost difference for a good bike with a bigger battery is also double to triple that of most typical gas bike builds using quality parts, and just like any cheap bike on the market, the cheaper bikes out there - including those in the $1000-1500 range - tend to have the same budget parts and construction that require upgrading, work, or attention/adjustments that need to be kept on top of just like with every bike.

For $1000-1500 I could invest into Gemini Wheels to avoid most of the wheel problems, and use a quality/durable steel frame. The transmission issues are going to be more difficult to resolve, but some of that will come down to the quality of the transmission. What transmission are you using?

Then there is the biggest advantage of the gas bikes - greater range and no waiting to recharge.

Yes I've been using 5w-30 synthetic that goes into the truck just bc it's what been lying around. I was not aware of the zinc issue, i can easily go get different oil and do an oil change.
Glad to know that the cam one affordable fix if need be.

As far as the the trans. It's the belt drive one that comes with those ebay hueshangs. I would love a pair of Gemini, the problem is, it's hard to justify that price to the Mrs for bicycle rims. And I would consider it more if I found the right frame. I have a beach cruiser steel frame and it has its weak points but its holding up over all. I really need to get suspension forks on it if I can keep it running. Not sure what kind of dollars it's going to take to find the right quality steel frame. And then if I go that direction I won't keep that huasheng motor.


On the electric side. I was looking at couple that are slightly passed the legal limit (1000w) for closer $2k. However, personally I would literally be running the bike 20 miles round trip per working day that I rode it. So based on what your saying. If I wanted to make a pit stop either direction I'd be forced to charge the battery at work, which would be a hassle but do able.

Thank you so much for your indepth answer. It really gives me alot to think about.
 
You are absolutely correct about electric. However, the according to the state of Texas you cannot surpass 50cc to stay legal without titling, insurance, and license.

I've been driving my 53cc around town no problem. Cops don't care around here as long your "bicycle" stays under the required mph so I can't go faster than 30mph which my bike can only hit 30 going down hill.
I can remember living in Texas during the 70's. A DUI ment a 1.4 or higher. You could actually drink while you were driving. You also weren't required to have insurance either. If you lived in the county and got pulled over for a couple of your beers the cop would take you home; provided you wasn't a long hair. If you were a long hair you got beat up and taken to jail. Which makes you wonder how hammered George JR was when he got a DUI in Texas while his Daddy George SR was governor lol

Coors beer was only sold west of the Mississippi and was 12% alcohol. You could buy liquor at 18. However, only a parent could buy beer or mixed drinks for their minor child at a bar.
 
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