General Ignorance Question (Stihl Engines)

[Chainlube]

It's the labor side of things that most people don't understand. I did a bunch of head work to my Cheap Chinese made 250cc dual sport, and was one of the first people to do so. Obviously, everybody and their cousin wanted me to port their head for them afterward. I kept refusing and finally had to explain to somebody that the 5 hours of my life it took to do that one head would cost them $400 in order to make it worth my time (keep in mind the entire motorcycle at the time was $1400 delivered). After that, I was told I was crazy, etc. and trying to rip people off . Now, I don't even bother talking to people.

People just don't get it. Did you ask them if they could do it? Then ask them to do a couple for you for nothing.

I charge $30hr for small engine work, and people still cough at that. But I go to them and I'm honest about the condition of their equipment. I often have to pick up the machine and bring it home to fix, because I don't carry that many tools with me.

 

[rusty.western.flyer]

$30hr is rediculous cheap here. You can make that at any auto dealership as a level C mechanic.

Shop rate at my work is $150 per hour. A+ and above can make almost $60/hr working for a co.

BMW here is $300/hr

 

[ImpulseRocket]

People just don't get it. Did you ask them if they could do it? Then ask them to do a couple for you for nothing.

I charge $30hr for small engine work, and people still cough at that. But I go to them and I'm honest about the condition of their equipment. I often have to pick up the machine and bring it home to fix, because I don't carry that many tools with me.

Oh, yeah, I asked them. So many people don't take the time to think about the overhead with tools, the loss of my time, or most importantly the knowledge and experience it takes to do that kind of work. They seem to think that if a big company turns out off the shelf ported heads for one engine that only costs $350, I must be greedy to charge more. Whatever facts I give people, there will always be something else that proves I am greedy. Hence why I just don't bother. I am quite content to spend hours of my own time to port cylinders, heads, etc. I have the ability, most of the tools, and it's my time. I enjoy it.

 

[DAMIEN1307]

Hence why I just don't bother. I am quite content to spend hours of my own time to port cylinders, heads, etc. I have the ability, most of the tools, and it's my time. I enjoy it.

You can always just move right next door to me and do my work along with yours...lol...I Promise I will still respect you in the morning...lol...lol.

 

[Freddy Snottgrass]

You can always just move right next door to me and do my work along with yours...lol...I Promise I will still respect you in the morning...lol...lol.

You said you were saving that spot for me...

 

[ImpulseRocket]

You can always just move right next door to me and do my work along with yours...lol...I Promise I will still respect you in the morning...lol...lol.

I can only whore myself out to one person at a time and my girlfriend called dibs.

 

[christopherjohns321]

Those are Big Bore MS660 cylinders with a 56mm bore. In order to fit them to a standard bottom end they need a decent amount of work. The case halves need to be opened up to clear the 56mm piston. The original stud holes need to be filled in and the deck re-drilled for the new bolt pattern. Often the deck of the case halves and/or the cylinder need to be milled down to set the correct compression height/squish gap as well as port timing.

The transfers on the case need to be filled in when using an MS380, 460, or 660 cylinder.

Then there is the issue with the wrist pin bearing. Most of the stihl saws use a 12mm wrist pin while the CG bottom ends run a 10mm pin, so most often people run bronze bushings to run the smaller wrist pin. There are YD/LD100 bottom ends that run a 12mm pin, as well as the 110cc engine. The YD100 rods can and have also been opened up to the 15.8-16mm ID in order to run the larger wrist pin needle bearings.

The YD100 bottom ends have enough space to run up to a 54mm piston without clearance issues and the 110cc engines can run the 56mm piston with no clearance issues.

None of this work is overly complicated, but it is a lot of tedious work to get it right. Small details like ensuring the cylinder is centered before marking your holes to drill and tap.

This is actually one reason the Phantom 85 engine was created. It gives you the chance to have what is essentially an MS460 Saw cylinder on a YD100 case with none of the work mentioned above. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean you won't be doing a bunch of work anyway to get a good engine, but the work you do have to do is much simpler. I love my Phantom, but I had to rebuild it and rework it to get it to a point where it isn't a time bomb (hopefully).

I'm so upset that the CDH 110/52mm porting is Junk! It just will not breath at all.
and i bought 3 of these P.O.S's. well one is a case reed (donsp). the case reed runs better but is a dog.(boat anchor).
It appears to be very straight forward, the 56mm sthil will go on easy enough. But Before i do.
DO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE, HAVE A RUNNING STIHL CONVERSION? IN EITHER THE 54MM OR 56MM?
I'm looking for conformation that the porting is not an issue.
the bottom end is the Only decent part of the CDH 110/52mm motor..
And with a +7 HP.
then add my ignition, kx 80 expansion chamber w/ FMF can, g2 reed box w/ Nibbi 24mm PE carburetor (round slide). That are just sitting in their boxes waiting for a decent motor.
Should be a powerhouse.
Any information is priceless, and is greatly appreciated.
TY... Chris J. Manchester, USA

 

[cdeuce1988]

Those are Big Bore MS660 cylinders with a 56mm bore. In order to fit them to a standard bottom end they need a decent amount of work. The case halves need to be opened up to clear the 56mm piston. The original stud holes need to be filled in and the deck re-drilled for the new bolt pattern. Often the deck of the case halves and/or the cylinder need to be milled down to set the correct compression height/squish gap as well as port timing.

The transfers on the case need to be filled in when using an MS380, 460, or 660 cylinder.

Then there is the issue with the wrist pin bearing. Most of the stihl saws use a 12mm wrist pin while the CG bottom ends run a 10mm pin, so most often people run bronze bushings to run the smaller wrist pin. There are YD/LD100 bottom ends that run a 12mm pin, as well as the 110cc engine. The YD100 rods can and have also been opened up to the 15.8-16mm ID in order to run the larger wrist pin needle bearings.

The YD100 bottom ends have enough space to run up to a 54mm piston without clearance issues and the 110cc engines can run the 56mm piston with no clearance issues.

None of this work is overly complicated, but it is a lot of tedious work to get it right. Small details like ensuring the cylinder is centered before marking your holes to drill and tap.

This is actually one reason the Phantom 85 engine was created. It gives you the chance to have what is essentially an MS460 Saw cylinder on a YD100 case with none of the work mentioned above. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean you won't be doing a bunch of work anyway to get a good engine, but the work you do have to do is much simpler. I love my Phantom, but I had to rebuild it and rework it to get it to a point where it isn't a time bomb (hopefully).

The 12mm connecting rod they run in some yd100's say ZMN100 on them.

 

[ImpulseRocket]

The 12mm connecting rod they run in some yd100's say ZMN100 on them.

Yep. Just like the YD100 bottom end on the Phantom

 

[MechMike219]

I was under the impression the yd100 rod still leaves the stroke just shy of what it should be.. I know the geometry is totally different from saw to cg cranks and another thing I found out was if you mill the cylinder down to get stihls squish specs you end up going like 1mm too much and at tdc the exhaust port is slightly open below the piston skirt.. something about using the rod from a Husqvarna 760 cut saw.. good luck finding just the rod.. crank assembly is around $350-400.. I'm hard pass on that one.. but if you find someone with a few of them laying around, I needs one.. but as far as port timing goes.. idk.. Im pretty sure it would probably need some finessing to get it dialed in properly.. lol. Properly.. if that word even belongs in the same category as chinasaw.. but, if I'm not mistaken, I think it's the ms260 or 290.. there's no rod swap needed and the 48mm bike motor piston will work with a 1mm spacer to lift the cylinder.. again, Im just going by what I halfway threw together out of curiosity with a trash cylinder I had laying around. Ended up buying the ms660 54mm kit instead of the 48..