Greetings from The Phantom

[Phantom]

So nice to be here! I've learned a lot from this forum, and have decided to join. Perhaps I may even be able to contribute something of value.

I commute via bicycle, but my passion is long-distance, fully loaded touring. I've been cycling seriously for about 25 years, including a 10-year stretch where I gave up my car (by choice) to return to the simplicity of riding a bike. Eventually, changing careers into construction necessitated buying a pick-up truck, but I'm out of that game now, and for three years and counting I'm back to just two wheels. "Simplify! Simplify! Simplify!" [Thoreau]

About a year ago I ventured into motorized cycling: a 38cc four-stroke GEBE. I made a few mods (larger fuel tank and rear-mounted basket) and have been very pleased with its performance and reliability. My newest toy is a DIY electric. I converted a 26-inch mountain bike into a 16-speed (2x8) mid-drive shifter. It's a blast to ride and has got some serious kick.

Thank you to all who have contributed to this forum and made it a supportive, helpful and fun place!

-- The Phantom

 

[machanic]

Hello to The Phantom, always glad to here from a new member and you made a timely entrance, I have a mountain bike on the way and was wondering if I should go hub motor or mid drive, any input would be appreciated.

 

[Phantom]

Hello to The Phantom, always glad to here from a new member and you made a timely entrance, I have a mountain bike on the way and was wondering if I should go hub motor or mid drive, any input would be appreciated.

Here are some pro's and con's of both systems (by no means a complete list, just what comes to mind first).

Hub Motor

Pros:
Simple build (basically swap out a standard wheel with a motorized one, add the electronics and go!)
Probably cheaper than a mid-drive
Excellent performance on flat terrain, since this is what most hub motors are optimized for

Cons:
Weaker performance on climbs. The steeper the climb, the more the hub motor with its fixed gearing will struggle.
Slightly more difficult routine maintenance, since the electrical connection to the wheel makes pulling the wheel to change a flat etc. slightly more of a hassle.
Be sure your frame dropouts can handle the torque (steel frames good, aluminum not so much; best to add torque arms)


Mid-Drive Shifter

Pros:
Ultimate versatility, since you're using gears to adapt to varying terrain. Compared to equivalent hub motor, a shifter with a wide gear range can go faster on the flats and climb with much more torque.
Gearing versatility can yield more efficient use of battery and less wear on motor (lower gearing = less strain on motor = less current draw)
Simpler rear wheel maintenance. It removes just like a standard wheel, so fixing flats, changing tires, replacing spokes, sprockets, etc. is no problem.

Cons:
More complex mechanical build (I had to install a wider bottom bracket with new cranks, build up a set of freewheeling chainrings, mount the motor and tweak the chain line and front derailler to get the shifting just right).
Probably more expensive
Can be harder on the drivetrain, but I think this largely depends on the rider's style. Avoid jack-rabbit starts and roll the throttle with a lighter touch and you'll probably be fine.

Ultimately, I went with a shifter because I wanted the challenge of a more complex build and I am surrounded by steep terrain -- 8% - 12% grades. I need something that *climbs*!

Have fun with your build!

-- The Phantom

 

[machanic]

Thanks for the info, I was wondering about the noise also, I had heard the gears in the motors whine, I'm in RI where basically motored bikes are illegal so stealth is the word.

 

[Street Ryderz]

Here are some pro's and con's of both systems (by no means a complete list, just what comes to mind first).

Hub Motor

Pros:
Simple build (basically swap out a standard wheel with a motorized one, add the electronics and go!)
Probably cheaper than a mid-drive
Excellent performance on flat terrain, since this is what most hub motors are optimized for

Cons:
Weaker performance on climbs. The steeper the climb, the more the hub motor with its fixed gearing will struggle.
Slightly more difficult routine maintenance, since the electrical connection to the wheel makes pulling the wheel to change a flat etc. slightly more of a hassle.
Be sure your frame dropouts can handle the torque (steel frames good, aluminum not so much; best to add torque arms)


Mid-Drive Shifter

Pros:
Ultimate versatility, since you're using gears to adapt to varying terrain. Compared to equivalent hub motor, a shifter with a wide gear range can go faster on the flats and climb with much more torque.
Gearing versatility can yield more efficient use of battery and less wear on motor (lower gearing = less strain on motor = less current draw)
Simpler rear wheel maintenance. It removes just like a standard wheel, so fixing flats, changing tires, replacing spokes, sprockets, etc. is no problem.

Cons:
More complex mechanical build (I had to install a wider bottom bracket with new cranks, build up a set of freewheeling chainrings, mount the motor and tweak the chain line and front derailler to get the shifting just right).
Probably more expensive
Can be harder on the drivetrain, but I think this largely depends on the rider's style. Avoid jack-rabbit starts and roll the throttle with a lighter touch and you'll probably be fine.

Ultimately, I went with a shifter because I wanted the challenge of a more complex build and I am surrounded by steep terrain -- 8% - 12% grades. I need something that *climbs*!

Have fun with your build!

-- The Phantom

Thats not right a geared mid drive has a higher average amp draw than a hub motor and a hub motor has no gearing it simply revolves around it's fixed axle.The hub motor having a lower average amp draw yeilds longer run times and requires far less maintenence.Hub motors stay within 20 percent of the free spin and are much more efficaint, geared mid drive can fall as low as 60 percent from free spin when over geared and being pushed like that over heats both motor and controller.If you go to Grin's site Ebike.ca they have a motor simulator that lets you select from every good motor on the market and see how much it will draw on your set up,the efficaintcy and speeds give it a try great source of info when seting up a new build.

 

[Phantom]

Hello to The Phantom, always glad to here from a new member and you made a timely entrance, I have a mountain bike on the way and was wondering if I should go hub motor or mid drive, any input would be appreciated.

One last post, then I'll shut up!

This is the best primer I've seen on ebike motors. The author does a good job defining them, explaining how they work, and citing pro's and con's of mid-drives and hub motors (both gearless and geared -- which someone in another post seems to think don't exist!). He even has photos and links to videos.

I've never posted links in this forum, so I hope this works:

https://electricbikereview.com/guides/difference-between-ebike-motors/#/

Hope this is helpful for you.

I'll leave now, before the SPCA cites me for beating a dead horse!

-- The Phantom

 

[Phantom]

Thanks for the info, I was wondering about the noise also, I had heard the gears in the motors whine, I'm in RI where basically motored bikes are illegal so stealth is the word.

That's too bad about RI's attitude towards MBs.

I hadn't thought to mention the sound aspect, but you're right -- there's definitely a range from whisper-quiet to whines-like-a-dynamo. I've heard both types among both hubs and mid-drives.

Hope you're able to get something that works for you!

-- The Phantom

 

[machanic]

Thanks for that post, it is a good write up on the different ebike drives.

 

[Street Ryderz]

One last post, then I'll shut up!

This is the best primer I've seen on ebike motors. The author does a good job defining them, explaining how they work, and citing pro's and con's of mid-drives and hub motors (both gearless and geared -- which someone in another post seems to think don't exist!). He even has photos and links to videos.

I've never posted links in this forum, so I hope this works:

https://electricbikereview.com/guides/difference-between-ebike-motors/#/

Hope this is helpful for you.

I'll leave now, before the SPCA cites me for beating a dead horse!

-- The Phantom

I didn't say they dont exist they are just s**tty and no one use's them for real transportation builds,over 90 percent of the hub motors used today are direct drive they are the most efficaint electric motor available period.