Help with drive train 8 speed and rear wheel

[insane engines]

Ok here we go.I want to build a dependable ride. Using the felt faker frame with the phantom V3 85cc to start with are the HD wheel with double wall rim and 48 12 gauge spokes a good wheel to run a 8 speed setup. And what about shifter jackshafts? I fear I will have to build my own to be right. Use thick T6 plate cut to size with Stainless machine screws that are a grade 5.Then use a 5/8 aluminum keyed shaft with top quality bearings. I haven't figured out the crank sprockets and bearing at this point. That must be HD as well especially the bearing! I think this is possible Im not positive anyone who does well know please comment. Those who don't do not reply. What I am sure of is the fact single speed or gearing. I will run a jackshft.Since I do not want two drive systems. One will be all. Remember I want a strong reliable ride. IF that isn't possible please say so. So your aware,I do not plan to use anymore china made products than already noted.The rest will be made else where do to knowing what I will end up with.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

So let's start with the most basic stuff are you planning to use a 8 speed cassette or a 8 speed IGH?

 

[Gordy]

I have a somewhat similar build brewing. It's a avenger 85 with a SBP shift kit and a Sturmey Archer 3 speed IGH. I wouldn't use an 8 spd igh. Keep in mind the more speeds inside the hub, the smaller the parts get. I doubt one would hold up to the torque of the phantom for long.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

Gordy:
I have a somewhat similar build brewing. It's a avenger 85 with a SBP shift kit and a Sturmey Archer 3 speed IGH. I wouldn't use an 8 spd igh. Keep in mind the more speeds inside the hub, the smaller the parts get. I doubt one would hold up to the torque of the phantom for long.

If used correctly it could hold up. However, it's vital you be in the correct gear at all times. You must be vigilant to not do take-offs, climb steep hills, pull heavy loads in too high of a gear.

On pedal-only multi-speed bicycles the jumps between gears isn't very much because himan-legs is the power source. When you have a powerful engine the jumps between gears needs to be greater. Having 8 gears is way to many for a Phantom 85 engine.

I personally suggest getting a Strumey Archer S3X IGH and driving the left side of the rear wheel. Then you can use a multi-speed human drive system as a backup in case of an engine system failure. This system will be like having the following rear sprockets:
1) 58t
2) 48t
3) 36t

 

[cloakedvillain]

You risk stripping pawls with shock loading. Especially a clutch dump from a phantom. A good place to look is high power mid drive e bikes. Those guys just dump huge amounts of torque into bike parts. Supposedly Linkglide is more durable that hyperglide. I'll look into it some more for you but 2 heads are better than one.

Dual pivot derailleurs take big jumps the best. You can easily customize cassettes. The 11-45. Has some big jumps in it. https://www.rivbike.com/products/ca...lSm5m2qiNARFn6Tvhzw13hQ-stjZnYHLJrq2cMsWP6V-H

Thread 'Looking for tested rear hubs for BBSHD' https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/looking-for-tested-rear-hubs-for-bbshd.113090/

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

I've had 2 shifter bikes over the last 14 years. Both have been derailleur systems. The 1st one was the LandRider, which shifted 7 gears automatically through a 1x7 bicycle drive system. The 2nd one is the Sidewinder which uses a 3×7 bicycle drive system. That doesn't mean I use 21 gears. I use 9 gears and a color-coded system.

The biggest issue with a 1×7,8,9, etc, is the lateral stress/wear put on the chain and sprockets. With the LandRider I replaced the chain around every 6 months. I once made a 4-speed freewheel (34,28,22,16); yes that's 666, for the jumps between sprockets. You could reduce the number of cogs to reduce the lateral stress. However, it also means with an engine failure your legs will have to deal with bigger jumps between the gears.

The Shimano HG72 bicycle chain on the Sidewinder is 4 years old, thanks to the shifting system I developed. As you can see the bicycle chain is always in a fairly straight line. I only change chainrings when in either sprocket (3) or (5). I use a tachometer to shift by as well. On my engine max hp is at 7000 rpm. If I'm in a gear doing 7000 rpm at full throttle on level ground, shifting to a higher gear won't make me go any faster. It'll just cause an rpm drop even slow me down some because I'm no longer at max hp rpm. My max torque is at 5000 rpm. So if at full throttle I'm going over 7000 rpm I shift to a higher gear. If at full throttle I drop below 6000 rpm I shift to a lower gear. Oh, and my clutch is also 14 years old.

The Strumey Archer S3X is the strongest IGH hub on the market. Unlike a derailleur system, you don't have to be moving to change gears. There aren't any pawls in the SA S3X. Cassette and freewheel systems do have pawls.. Since reliability is what you're after, 2 drive systems are the better option. If your cassette goes out, derailleur(s) fails, or the shift kit fails, you'll be walking; with the system, I'm suggesting if one of the drive systems goes down you still have a way to keep riding

 

[insane engines]

So let's start with the most basic stuff are you planning to use a 8 speed cassette or a 8 speed IGH?

Imnot sure what a IGH is?But it is a cassette I wanted to use.A strong good quality complete unit. And I know what has worked well for my needs.But that doesnt mean it will for this type build.

 

[insane engines]

I sure cant argue that since I d spent a few decades riding various dirt bikes to say this.The very first year Yamaha came out with a motocross bike.I owned the 125 and later the 360.Both had a reed setup.All the rest had none.Couldn't tell any difference.However this is a different and smaller engine.So any change you will know fast.What is it that makes this piston so much better? Also you said you re balanced and trued the crank?Why if it comes that way?Do to the piston swap?OR because the Chinese don't seem to know what there doing with most things that have to do with ether engines and no doubt these motorized bicycles. Im here to say id just got my first and last full Chinese motor bike.That thing has been nothing short of three weeks of pure hell. When I got it do to how it looked for ready to go!It was anything but that. So I started replacing both bad parts or wrong choice of parts.What I got were all problematic. Mounts hole drilled to small or not aligned right. The pipe was a real fight to get to fit.The carb wasn't jetted right and trying to find and buy the right jets was impossible.Since they do not use names or numbers is why.Just a shot in the dark.Along in how the say one size fits all Bulls**t!I bought a hp carb that wouldn't run no matter what jets went into it.And the throttle cable didn't fit ether had to be bendt.Then the rear wheel went out do to a bad hub.I was told to expect this issue?I dont care to believe that.All I know is if this is what these bikes are all about.I don't want any part of them.You should be able to build a good one use as many quality parts made else where.But I did buy the felt faker frame and a phantom V3 so if you can tell me what needs done.Id be so very grateful.Thank you Randy

 

[ImpulseRocket]

Imnot sure what a IGH is?

Internally Geared Hub. Basically a small Planetary gear transmission inside a wheel hub.

The more gears the IGH has, generally the weaker it is. They will hold up to human power fine, but not an engine aking 4-10 times human power.

The Sturmey Archer S3X that Sidewinder Jerry mentioned is a little bit of an exception and are built more strongly than most and have proven capable of handling the power that a typical MB 2 stroke engine can put out. I own one myself, and I can attest that they are definitely built on the heavy duty side of things.

The downside is that they are exceedingly hard to find as they haven't been produced for several years. I paid quite a premium on mine at about 250 bucks, but that was the cheapest option of three at the time, with the other 2 being 400 and 500 dollars a piece.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

I sure cant argue that since I d spent a few decades riding various dirt bikes to say this.The very first year Yamaha came out with a motocross bike.I owned the 125 and later the 360.Both had a reed setup.All the rest had none.Couldn't tell any difference.However this is a different and smaller engine.So any change you will know fast.What is it that makes this piston so much better? Also you said you re balanced and trued the crank?Why if it comes that way?Do to the piston swap?OR because the Chinese don't seem to know what there doing with most things that have to do with ether engines and no doubt these motorized bicycles. Im here to say id just got my first and last full Chinese motor bike.That thing has been nothing short of three weeks of pure hell. When I got it do to how it looked for ready to go!It was anything but that. So I started replacing both bad parts or wrong choice of parts.What I got were all problematic. Mounts hole drilled to small or not aligned right. The pipe was a real fight to get to fit.The carb wasn't jetted right and trying to find and buy the right jets was impossible.Since they do not use names or numbers is why.Just a shot in the dark.Along in how the say one size fits all Bulls**t!I bought a hp carb that wouldn't run no matter what jets went into it.And the throttle cable didn't fit ether had to be bendt.Then the rear wheel went out do to a bad hub.I was told to expect this issue?I dont care to believe that.All I know is if this is what these bikes are all about.I don't want any part of them.You should be able to build a good one use as many quality parts made else where.But I did buy the felt faker frame and a phantom V3 so if you can tell me what needs done.Id be so very grateful.Thank you Randy

Tear down the wall then I'll read this.


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