Honda gxh50 compared to clones?

[cruiser66]

EPA certs

Here's a shot of the certification label on the HuaSheng...

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[augidog]

well, shoot, i can live with that...is it genuine? i'll gladly give the benefit of the doubt, for now.

so, are we looking at a 4-stroke version of the 2-stroke HT market emerging? i can see that there are going to be "same engine, different sources" issues cropping up, just like before...

the conclusion to my part in this discussion is: check your sources, as usual when dealing with china you can find both good (certified) and bad (copycat). my opinion, for many reasons...go with the good, starve the bad out of existence.

thanks to everyone for making this an interesting thread

 

[duivendyk]

The Titan is most likely a basic OHV pushrod based design and the Honda a chain or more likely belt driven OHC design, with higher rev.capability and a higher compression ratio, hence with more power, and is prob.not as thirsty.One important difference is that the Titan has an internal 5:1 reduction.Which certainly simplifies the rearwheel drive setup.

 

[cruiser66]

According to this link to the GXH50 owner's manual it is a OHV style engine like the clone. It is also rated at 1.6kw or 2.1 HP. See page 15...

http://www.honda-engines.com/Engines_owners_manuals/ownersmanuals/37Z4C603.pdf

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[HoughMade]

Just had the volve cover off my GXH50 yesterday- cutest little pushrods and rockers you've ever seen.

 

[cruiser66]

Just had the volve cover off my GXH50 yesterday- cutest little pushrods and rockers you've ever seen.

They must look like this, but I believe the adjusters are different from my
142F. Did you check out how easy it is to push the valves open just with moderate finger pressure?

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[ocscully]

The Titan is most likely a basic OHV pushrod based design and the Honda a chain or more likely belt driven OHC design, with higher rev.capability and a higher compression ratio, hence with more power, and is prob.not as thirsty.One important difference is that the Titan has an internal 5:1 reduction.Which certainly simplifies the rearwheel drive setup.

The Titan has the higher claimed rev. capability 8550 vs 7800. Both Titan and Honda are OHV with push rods etc. The Titan has no internal 5:1 reduction. The 5:1 reduction that you are speaking of is provided by the add-on PTO unit that also reverses the direction of rotation hence the Titan is mounted with its exhaust to the rear and PTO unit to the right side of the rack/bike, and its recoil starter on the left.

ocscully

 

[duivendyk]

I should have said "integral" instead of "internal".Staton apparently supplies something similar for the Honda.Wether that makes them interchangeable then, for use in the DAX kit ,who knows?

 

[augidog]

the "circular" 4-bolt-pattern & size, for any engine, is what determines that. and as mike's been bringing to light, shaft dimensions seem to matter, too. every engine needs something bolted to it for reduction, clutching, and direction. there are popular standards, almost always found on the quality offerings, and off-the-wall variances usually associated with the copies.

 

[Irish John]

Hi Guys, thanks for the comments. I still want as much more info as possible. Due to some of the responses here, I have learned a couple of interesting things.

#1 the little clones, though nice (I have one), are rated 1.5 hp

#2 The Honda (more money, tho well made) is rated 2.5!!!!

IMHO an increase of .5 hp is major for what we are doing, wouldn't people here pay good money for a carb, or a pipe that would deliver .5 HP?

I'm excited, a full horse is an amazing bonus! Soooo... this morning I ordered a gx50 from small engine warehouse. I have a grube gearbox from an earlier deal, and I have this little bike (see pic below). I think I have put on a front brake, if not, I surely will.

This little bike did a solid 30mpg, with JL gearbox, and the 1.5 Hua Sheng. I had set it up with the 44, which will not be appropriate for the Grube box? I always pedaled off the start, but when I let people test ride her it seems they NEVER did, tho I had told them to! It did, however, croak VERY early, some sort of a GB failure.

I am not up to date on the mix in the gearbox, for the JL the mix that had worked best was, packed with pale yellow Hi-Temp Disk brake grease (automotive), and then, when she started chattering, I found that if I mixed some SAE 40wt with the DBG, it would licquify into a very nice slurry which would continue to melt down, and continually lube the clutch, without bubbling out of the vented bolt at the rear of the box like the stinky 90/140 Hypoid did.

My goal is NOT to do the Grube box as a final, but to compare the H-S with the JL, to the Honda with the Grube box.

I know about searching, but since this thread is about the 4-stroke, and I'm adding (temp only) the grube, how would you guys suggust to set it up?

I probably have a 50th sprocket around here, but never had a larger one, and I can still make the same mix?

Mike

Mike I know the HuaSheng motor was listed on that site as 1.5HP but it was a mistake. Both motors (Honda GXH50 & HuaSheng copy) are pretty much the exact same specs. Both motors seem to have about the same degree of reliability but from reading these pages on this forum it would seem that the Honda can get a bit more speed and I think that is because it can rev about 400rpm faster. I'm only referring to frame-mounted rigs here - the rack-mounties seem to get more pulling power. The HuaSheng owners seem to need a sprocket less than 56T to get up to 30 mph. I've tried 56T, 48T & 44T sprockets on my HuaSheng Grubee and I reckon that the best sprocket would be a 52 or perhaps 50T. We are assuming that there's an 11T freewheel drive sprocket as a common denominator here.
For the purposes of your comparison both motors with the Grubee are infinitely better than the special HS motor with the JL gearbox.
The HS motor with the JL has its own special shaft and cannot be used with anything except a JL. Better to refer to it as a HS-JL for clarity.
I have read everything that's been written here about the JL and there is nothing good to be said about it. There was one good report that stood out but it was amended to a bad report very soon after it was posted.
I would have to say that the Honda is a marginally more powerful motor than the HS but the price difference is considerable if you live outside the USA and cannot buy from Small Engine Warehouse. We pay about US$480 here for a Honda GXH50.
I don't think you will get much joy trying any build that involves the JL Hoot GB but I will be trying one myself soon and I am not expecting to be pleased.
The HS engines are exceptionally good value for a Chinese-made product and I put it down to the fact that they are well copied from the Honda. The Honda GXH 50 is made in Malaysia or Thailand - not sure which but it isn't made in Japan.
Regarding wet GBs as opposed to dry grease GBs it seems some people have had good experiences with the wet GB using various mixes but I tried it and it was a total disaster. Lithium grease works best for my Grubee.