Honda gxh50 / under-mount fuel tank?

mdsman

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So just starting out down this trail & I'm curious if there is an EXTREME MAKEOVER needed to Under-mount a Fuel Tank if I use this gravity fuel delivery engine?... I've at least seen this application used on a Site where they sell Motorized Bikes but when I called my local Honda Small Engine Expert he said that it may be more trouble then it's worth??? adding that a Fuel Pump is needed which is no BIG thing but then you would need to tap into the Crank with a PULSE LINE...:-/

This is where he lost me... Can anyone expound with your vast wisdom & experience?
 
ThatsDax has a rotary valve diaphragm carburetor that doesn't need a pulse line from the crankcase. It uses a prime bulb, like many weedeater engines. The carburetor is $12.99 and the necessary adapter is $19.99: http://thatsdax.com/ENGINE_KIT_PARTS_PAGE_3.html

Here's Dwayne's YouTube video on how to install the carburetor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNqCia47K6U

Might want to watch Terry Blow's YouTube video on how to remove the Honda GXH50 carburetor. Just skip the part about installing the HS carburetor and watch Dwayne's above video to install the rotary valve diaphragm carburetor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZP3xZVgl-I

Good Luck,

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 
WOW... that was fast Chris... Really appreciate it!

> Still open to anymore ideas and/or Real World Experience with this type of Conversion & how it worked for yall

thx
-m
 
I also mounted up a 15mm rotary carb to mine, and it loves it. However, it isn't actually a requirement to use an undermounted fuel tank. Honda makes a fuel pump for them, it bolts to that 2" round hole near the bottom of the engine block, under the carberator. It's vaccume driven, it has 3 hose attachements, in and out, and one to the pcv crankcase vent, to drive it. In addition, cheap, Chinese mopeds also usually have similar vaccume/diaphram fuel pumps, that mount universally on the frame, someplace. These can be connected the same way, I presume.
I did my homework on the rotary mod, and found that the 12mm rotary is about the same bore as an overbored (upgrade) original carb, so the 15mm rotary I used is overkill overbore. But it loves it, I have no problems with it. It can be adjusted too lean to run, but it can also be adjusted too rich where you can smell the exhaust, and it blackens up the plug. So there is a comfortable zone in the mixture screw setting that will run great. I mention that since someone advised me against this, because his original cab is very sensitive to mixture settings. I don't have any such issues. I used the air cleaner assembly that came with the rotary carb, and drilled a hole in it, and stuck the hose for the pcv vent in, so that the end of the hose is past the air filter, so dirt cant get in the hose, and into the engine. There are filters you can get that just go on the end of the hose. I bet you a fuel filter would suffice.
If you have an original Honda GXH50, those have a centrifugal governor that the carb is locked into. You need to replace that with a Huasheng carb just to use the motor any other way, the Honda carb is too lean to use in an on demand application. Take that into consideration, if you have an original, you have to change the carb, anyway, but if you have a Huasheng, all you need is a Honda fuel pump.
 

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So just starting out down this trail & I'm curious if there is an EXTREME MAKEOVER needed to Under-mount a Fuel Tank if I use this gravity fuel delivery engine?... I've at least seen this application used on a Site where they sell Motorized Bikes but when I called my local Honda Small Engine Expert he said that it may be more trouble then it's worth??? adding that a Fuel Pump is needed which is no BIG thing but then you would need to tap into the Crank with a PULSE LINE...:-/

This is where he lost me... Can anyone expound with your vast wisdom & experience?

The Honda expert meant to say "Tap into the crankcase, not crank".

Pulse line means vacuum line.
 
DSCN2432.jpg
The Honda expert meant to say "Tap into the crankcase, not crank".

Pulse line means vacuum line.
This is provided for, there is a vent hole in the crankcase just underneath the intake port, with a rubber hose stuck in it. My Huasheng simply connected that hose to the airbox, but the original Honda mounted a diaphram fuel pump just below that, and in that case the hose from the crankcase vent hole connects to the fuel pump to provide the pulse for the pump. I think in this case "pulse" means both vaccume, as well as pressure, caused by the (bottom of) piston changing the volume in the crankcase as it moves up and down. In any case, that is provided for. Just take the hose from the crankcase off the air box, and connect it to the fuel pump. This fuel pump: http://www.2lcstore.com/catalog/item/5627332/5521587.htm or this one http://www.2lcstore.com/catalog/item/5627332/6987893.htm and attach the pulse hose to the third spout on the fuel pump. And cap the plug on the airbox that the pulse hose is connected to now, so you don't suck dirt down your carb. I suggest this route, since it's the cheapest, and least invasive way to mount the fuel tank anywhere you want to. I went straight to the rotary carb, because I already had one, and even reused the intake manifold by elongating 2 of the bolt holes, and making a new gasket, so I could do this immediately, without buying anything. Again, it loves it. I could not get it to work for awhile, I had to keep priming it to keep it going, in the end what it wanted was an adjustment to the metering valve, and that cured it, it LOVES the rotary carb, just for the record.
 
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Mantis, how did you elongate your bolt holes to mount your diaphragm carb? Did you have a diaphragm carb that was the same as the Hondas carb mounting holes? 42mm C to C I think and I think the closest I have found are 36mm mounting hold. Dax finally got more of the adapters in but they are for the 12mm carb with a corresponding bore. I want to run my 15mm walbro with high and low speed screws. I have a 12mm I could throw on there with the adapter but the only adjustment screw is for idle :snobby: so no go on that.

I remember you talking about your 15mm either idling off or bogging a little at the low end compared to your 12mm. Is it still an issue?

I tried to find your thread where you where talking about these things but couldn't come up with it.

mdsman, plus 1 on the fuel pump for most simple way to fix fuel delivery problem. I am running the Walbro fuel pump and it is more than I need. Once the fuel propagates the lines, this thing rocks! I got mine from https://www.affordablegokarts.com/
 
OK, first, all the issues I had initially when I put the 15mm rotary on, were instantly cured by an adjustment to the metering diaphram and needle valve, it loved that. As for the plastic manifold that came with the 15mm rotary, it has 2 seperate sets of holes, one has nuts pressed into the plastic, those holes bolt the carb to the manifold. The other set of holes (there might be 4 holes, but only 2 are used) bolts the manifold to the head (these go on first). As it turned out, these were only a few mm, like 4 or 5 too close together to bolt to the huasheng head. However, there is enough plastic around those that by drilling and some dremmeling, all the way out until the outside corners are as thin as you can get them, the bolts go in and go on. The sealing surface is on the inside, between the bolts, so it doesn't matter what you do to the outside, as far as those holes go. Also note that the carb doesn't sit straight up and down like this, the manifold will be twisted counter clockwise a couple of degrees.
Look at the manifold for the 15mm, look at it from the front where the carb goes on, the top left, and the bottom right through holes just need to be stretched out to the edge of the plastic, the corner of it. In fact, take the carb and manifold off the 4 stroke, and hold the two together, and you can see that those holes dont have very far to go.
And like I said, a tweak to the metering diaphram, and my 15mm started to sing like the fat lady, it runs awesome, now.

There was a tiny issue, and that is that at a couple of corresponding spots, there was just barely enough overlap of the different surfaces to make a seal the whole way around. I got sick of constantly buying new carb base gaskets, and then this, so I found a little roll of gasket meterial, and made my own gaskets, old shcool, like my daddy and grandpappy used to do back in the day. Being able to make a new gasket that took nnto consideration the difference in the shapes of the parts, and made sure that those got sealed good.
If you want to, me your snail mail, and I'll mail you some gasket(s) to expediate your project for you.

You know, come to think of it, I have a couple of those manifolds for the 15mm's floating around here, it only took me 5 or 10 minutes to do the holes out, I could do that for you, too, if you want, or dont have one to spare.
 
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Ok, got it on drilling out the holes. Does the exit port on your manifold look like this one or the black one?

intake-manifold1.jpgintake manifold.jpg

The tan one came with my 15mm carb but the exit port is much different than the square intake port on the engine head

Thanks so much for the gasket offer too
 
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