Hub vs mid drive?

The biggest advantage for me (and there are many) for using an after-market mid-drive over a hub motor is simply that you can couple them to an IGH... it takes any bike to the next level and doubly so for an ebike. It also moves the bike into a new price bracket, as does a full suspension so most riders don't even know what they are missing... like being able to ride single-track when you're stuck to playing in traffic. I'm not sure if a mid-drive will provide more range for the same watt-hours for an individual rider but I have never met anyone that can match my range loaded or unloaded... the bike, I'm always loaded.

Other advantages of mid-drives:
  • Smaller and lighter than similar wattage hub motors.
  • Gear ratio. Mid-drives are hands down better at applying torque.
  • With a suspended bike all the weight is sprung providing better handling, less wear-n-tear, and fewer broken spokes.
  • Far easier to remove the wheel for inevitable flats, especially on the trail.
  • If the motor should ever fail it can be replaced in 20 mins with the right tools. Faster if you have a great bike stand.
  • Mid-drives put the torque into the chain and are far better at climbing, pulling, and moving large loads.
  • A properly installed mid-drive coupled to an IGH has a perfectly straight chain line reducing wear significantly.
  • Far better weight distribution.
  • The BBSHD can be easily serviced/maintained by an owner with a few basic tools, with the exception of the main bearings.
  • Maintenance... not sure, but again I'd stack my mid-drive up against a hub motor with the same mileage any time.
Note: Many of these advantages still apply to production mid-drive ebikes but the downside of being stuck with a proprietary frame and motor is too much of a disadvantage to even consider.

If I ever use a hub motor it will be in my trailer wheel and used specifically for regen capability and the obvious reduction in brake wear.
 
B Bassett said:
The biggest advantage for me (and there are many) for using an after-market mid-drive over a hub motor is simply that you can couple them to an IGH... it takes any bike to the next level and doubly so for an ebike. It also moves the bike into a new price bracket, as does a full suspension so most riders don't even know what they are missing... like being able to ride single-track when you're stuck to playing in traffic. I'm not sure if a mid-drive will provide more range for the same watt-hours for an individual rider but I have never met anyone that can match my range loaded or unloaded... the bike, I'm always loaded.

Other advantages of mid-drives:
  • Smaller and lighter than similar wattage hub motors.
  • Gear ratio. Mid-drives are hands down better at applying torque.
  • With a suspended bike all the weight is sprung providing better handling, less wear-n-tear, and fewer broken spokes.
  • Far easier to remove the wheel for inevitable flats, especially on the trail.
  • If the motor should ever fail it can be replaced in 20 mins with the right tools. Faster if you have a great bike stand.
  • Mid-drives put the torque into the chain and are far better at climbing, pulling, and moving large loads.
  • A properly installed mid-drive coupled to an IGH has a perfectly straight chain line reducing wear significantly.
  • Far better weight distribution.
  • The BBSHD can be easily serviced/maintained by an owner with a few basic tools, with the exception of the main bearings.
  • Maintenance... not sure, but again I'd stack my mid-drive up against a hub motor with the same mileage any time.
Note: Many of these advantages still apply to production mid-drive ebikes but the downside of being stuck with a proprietary frame and motor is too much of a disadvantage to even consider.

If I ever use a hub motor it will be in my trailer wheel and used specifically for regen capability and the obvious reduction in brake wear.
Click to expand...
Good job👍......4 pages, and you finally addressed the OP's question. lol🤣🤣
 
B Bassett said:
The biggest advantage for me (and there are many) for using an after-market mid-drive over a hub motor is simply that you can couple them to an IGH... it takes any bike to the next level and doubly so for an ebike. It also moves the bike into a new price bracket, as does a full suspension so most riders don't even know what they are missing... like being able to ride single-track when you're stuck to playing in traffic. I'm not sure if a mid-drive will provide more range for the same watt-hours for an individual rider but I have never met anyone that can match my range loaded or unloaded... the bike, I'm always loaded.

Other advantages of mid-drives:
  • Smaller and lighter than similar wattage hub motors.
  • Gear ratio. Mid-drives are hands down better at applying torque.
  • With a suspended bike all the weight is sprung providing better handling, less wear-n-tear, and fewer broken spokes.
  • Far easier to remove the wheel for inevitable flats, especially on the trail.
  • If the motor should ever fail it can be replaced in 20 mins with the right tools. Faster if you have a great bike stand.
  • Mid-drives put the torque into the chain and are far better at climbing, pulling, and moving large loads.
  • A properly installed mid-drive coupled to an IGH has a perfectly straight chain line reducing wear significantly.
  • Far better weight distribution.
  • The BBSHD can be easily serviced/maintained by an owner with a few basic tools, with the exception of the main bearings.
  • Maintenance... not sure, but again I'd stack my mid-drive up against a hub motor with the same mileage any time.
Note: Many of these advantages still apply to production mid-drive ebikes but the downside of being stuck with a proprietary frame and motor is too much of a disadvantage to even consider.

If I ever use a hub motor it will be in my trailer wheel and used specifically for regen capability and the obvious reduction in brake wear.
Click to expand...
Only your 1st point is valid. Every other one of those points can be argued against. A hub drive ebike will have less strain applied to the chain than even just a pedal power bike. Flat tires aren't bad as there is only 1 wire bundle coming out of the hub and it plugs into the controller. I could swap out a rear hub in less than 20 minutes for sure. The spokes and double walled rim are way tougher than any bicycle grade stuff. I'm thinking you don't understand the relationship between torque output and electric motors. (It's why trains are electricity driven). As far a maintenence, it's magnets spinning around inside a case riding on big SEALED bearings. Only takes an allen key to take it completely apart but you'll never have to.
I guess hub drive will always be able to produce more power just because of size they'll be able to take more heat.
Hub drive keeps your regular ground clearance as well in case you really do go off road.
If your chain breaks, hub drive will get you home.
The bike is still totally rideable unpowered with no extra drag on the pedals.
 
I saw it mentioned twice in this thread about drag on pedals. Did earlier Bafang load up the crank?

I rode mine several miles just a few days ago, unpowered. Also took my wife's trike out for a loop to check mechanical, no battery.

It freewheels. If there's an added load its inperceptible.

Broken chain? Now that's a valid argument. I got stupid and did that one already. Murphy's Law got me, a new chain was on my shelf, just had to have ONE more ride. Ended with Google Maps looking for closest main road. Tied straps to my steering, drug it up hills, coasted down, found the highway and a Good Samaritan with a truck.

What did I learn?
Carry chain repair tools!!!!

*and use quality chains with connector links no pressed pins
 
Urban Fatbiker said:
I saw it mentioned twice in this thread about drag on pedals. Did earlier Bafang load up the crank?

I rode mine several miles just a few days ago, unpowered. Also took my wife's trike out for a loop to check mechanical, no battery.

It freewheels. If there's an added load its inperceptible.

Broken chain? Now that's a valid argument. I got stupid and did that one already. Murphy's Law got me, a new chain was on my shelf, just had to have ONE more ride. Ended with Google Maps looking for closest main road. Tied straps to my steering, drug it up hills, coasted down, found the highway and a Good Samaritan with a truck.

What did I learn?
Carry chain repair tools!!!!

*and use quality chains with connector links no pressed pins
Click to expand...
Unfortunately with cross 10 triple chainrings most people don't know how to use them. For example with a 3x7 the term 21 speed is a marketing misrepresentation. What one has is 21 different shifting combinations not 21 different ratios. Many of the ratios are redundant.

When it comes to pedal only power if a gear is too easy or to hard to comfortably maintain a cadence (crank rpm) of 70-90 it means you're in the wrong gear. A bicycle computer with a cadence meter can let you know what the crank rpm is. With the sequential ratio shifting system method I teach, one will know exactly how to shift to the next higher or lower ratio.

So I teach people the correct way to shift cross style chainrings. Now there is a such thing as half step chainrings but that's another whole different story to tell later on. Here's an example of what I'm talking about using a 3x7:

Hill climbing and load pulling
1(1-4)

Level ground comfort riding
2(2-5)

Level ground sprinting and down hill
3(4-7)

For 12 sequential non redundant gear ratios.

Starting gears are:
Stops going up hill be in 1(1) before stopping.

All other stops use 2(2).
 
B Bassett said:
When someone actually tries to argue something obvious like weight distribution with hub and mid-drive motors... there really isn't any reason to bother pointing out all their other mistaken ideas.
Click to expand...
The funniest one i ever heard was someone about a year ago arguing with me about "center of gravity" with my 2 cycle Zeda motor telling me the motor was mounted too high up on the frame and throwing off the "center of gravity"...lol.

I replied that the bike weighs 80 pounds and once i put my 217 pounds on that seat, you can kiss off anything to do with so-called "center of gravity" as its gonna be top heavy as all Hell while the bike is screaming at me saying, "Get off me ya fat B*****D"...lol...He never replied after that...lol...DAMIEN
 

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