Is there a 50cc diesel engine out there?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Tifford, May 19, 2008.

  1. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

    I've found a few 100cc or so diesel engines out there. I know they cost a bunch due to the engineering required to make them withstand the 1:22 compression ratio.

    Does anyone even make a 49 or 50cc diesel engine?

  2. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    I've been looking too- just for the fun of it and...who knows. I'll let you know if I find anything.
  3. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    I just posted this in another thread:

    You could probably build a frame around the engine... but I doubt you'd be able to get it to fit into anything but the hugest of bikes.
  4. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Diesel engines are heavy,expensive to build,and difficult to start,with a 20 to one or so compression ratio,they need a glow plug to get going or a blow torch.What they have going for them is low specific fuel consumption.Absolutely the last engine any person,not looking for punishment&frustration would think of putting on a bicycle.
  5. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Bill baby.

    What we really need is for Bill Gates to become a member here & he can build it for us......50cc diesel,no problem guys. :cool:
  6. Hybridbiker

    Hybridbiker Member

    diesel is almost $4.50 a gallon here, im not sure it would be worth the diesel conversion, would be very different though, i bet if someplace makes a 50cc diesel, it would get really good mileage though.
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
  7. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

    My reason for wanting a diesel is that they:

    1) Have a lot of TQ without having to rev the snot out of them
    2) Great MPG. Should be able to hit the 250+ MPG mark
    3) I would put money on it that you could get 5 HP out of a small 50cc diesel. That doesn't seem like much but regular gas engines make around 2.1 to 2.5 hp. That is a big increase.
    4) Should be great for hills
    5) Should last a long time

    You pay a little more for diesel but do the it really that much more out of pocket for the fuel when we are talking about a 50cc engine that would get over 200mpg.

    Assume 4 for regular and 4.50 for diesel. Lets also assume that the bikes get the same mpg (around 200 miles).......diesel should get better mpg but for sake of arguement we'll say the same.

    4/200 = .02 ............that's 2 cents per mile

    4.50/200 = .022 ........that's 2.225 cents per mile.

    So your complaining about paying an extra .225 cents per mile?

    Eat one less cheesburger at McDonalds and you'll make your cost up in fuel for the year. Now let me run another thing past you. What if you could run your cooking oil in the engine. Eat fries for lunch and use your own used oil for your engine. ie almost never having to fill up at the station. If you couldn't burn straight cooking oil I bet a dozen donuts that you could mix the oil with diesel to make it go further. But we are talking about less than 3 tenths of a cent per mile here.

    The big down side is that buying the engine to start off with would be more. However diesel engines tend to last longer due to the engineering that goes into them.

    If gas goes to (when gas goes to) 5 or 6 bucks a gallon we will see these engines developed and I want to be the one investing in this company that will make these engines.
  8. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

  9. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    Biodiesel would be the only reason I'd be interested in a micro-diesel. If you look at this thread, you'll see a post in there by ducatiluke about an 18cc diesel that's currently being developed. Their primary goal is to make a durable engine for irrigation pumps, but they're also aware of it's other potential applications.

    It's VERY small, and could probably be adapted to a bike pretty easily.
  10. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

  11. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    the smallest one (1B20) still weighs in at close to 50 pounds. But you can get one with an electric start! which means it probably has a charging system on it. $1800 for electric start, or $1400 with pull start. Cost prohibitive indeed.
  12. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

  13. Hybridbiker

    Hybridbiker Member

    The bio diesel option is cool, ive seen the cooking oil conversion kits for most diesel engines, you would need 2 fuel tanks though, since the oil has to be heated for the first few minutes of a cold start, and the engine uses regular diesel at that time, then switches to the cooking oil.
  14. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    Yeah... but you don't need to do it like that for trans-esterified biodiesel. It is kind of a pain to cook up a batch which is why a lot of people just run straight vegetable oil. But if you're using an engine that gets 200mpg, a 50 gallon batch would last a loooong time.

    I'm constantly thinking about this as an option, because I've got a popeye's fried chicken joint just down the street from me. I'm sure they actually pay somebody to haul off their waste oil. I bet they'd be happy to give it to me for free.
  15. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    And diesels DO get better mpg, because diesel fuel has more BTUs per volume than gasoline. It's about 138,000 BTUs to 125,000 BTUs for straight gasoline, or closer to 120,000 or less BTUs for gasoline mixed with 10% ethanol (don't use this stuff in your small engines!!).

    So, value-wise, you'll see that you're going to be breaking even. The price is more, because you get more... but no matter which one you choose, you're not going to be paying more for fuel, even tho it appears so.

    The real benefits from diesel are the torque and being able to run engines offa bio-fuels. I'd gladly take both of those benefits if they were an option. Prices at the pump can't fool me! ;)
  16. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

    I agree.

    The benefits of running bio-fuel would do it for me. I think you could mix your own oil with the diesel to make it go further. If you could run a 50/50 mix of old oil and diesel then it would be about the same as paying 1/2 price for diesel.

    Here are two things that I'd like to see.

    1) A bike with a 50cc bio-diesel engine.

    2) I bet with the right resouces a very light weight car could be made. Weld two bikes together so that they run parallel and are 4 feet apart. Hook up a light weight steering rack from a go cart to the bikes front wheels. Put a 125cc or so diesel engine behind the driver. Put a light weight battery at the front and run a generator (light weight less than a couple of pounds) off of one of the wheels (friction drive). Let the lights run off of the generator when the 'car' is moving and run off the car battery when stopped. I've wired an entire car up myself using the painless harness from summit racing and although it is a pain in the butt, it can be done. Without driver or fuel I bet the car could weigh around 700 pounds or less.

    I'd also like to see states get rid of the 50cc limit. Would it not be nice to have an engine with a little more power given that someone could make a bike frame to withstand the pounding? Let the states have up to 150cc with no tax tags or registration. More people would opt for these 150cc machines and save money on fuel.

    Our govt in their not so great wisdom painted us into a corner. There are a ton of regulations that a car has to meet before it can be sold. The result is that cars are heavy. That was fine when oil was cheap. 4,000 pound cars can use oil and gas like it is going out of style. Now however light weight is what is needed to increase the mpg.
  17. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    What they need to do is stop restricting the sale of new diesel passenger vehicles. It's easier for me to buy a Hummer than it is a brand new compact diesel car in California. How does that make sense? I know our diesel is dirtier than most countries and that's the main reason the restrictions are in place, but come on... The smart car in europe runs on a tiny diesel engine, and gets much better mileage than it's american counterpart does. But they can't sell the thing here... It's the same story with the Mini.

    But I have to disagree on the 50cc limit. With more displacement comes more speed. If you're going to be zipping around at high speed, you really need to know what you're doing. Getting the motorcycle class license really helps, especially in states that allow people to take classes in lieu of road tests. We all may be fairly responsible people on this board... but a lot of new riders aren't. A 23 year old kid was killed in my neighborhood last weekend because he was being an idiot on his new crotch-rocket and lost control. No helmet to boot. Licensing won't prevent that kind of thing, but it will at least give new riders the opportunity to be informed before making a bad decision.
  18. KiDD

    KiDD Member

    There has been a rash of used cooking oil/grease theft where I live.
  19. Tifford

    Tifford New Member

    Actually I think increasing to 150cc without tax tags or registration might save lives.

    When a kid turns 16 he has a few choices. Car, bike, scooter/motor poweredbike.

    With gas prices going up and up I think the car buying will go down and more guys will be buying bikes.......many 600cc rockets. What teen wants to drive a 50cc bike to school? Up the cc to 150 and the same guy/girl might buy one because now they can keep up with traffic and be cool at the same time.

    Make them get a license and wear a helmet but ease up on other things.

    It doesn't matter if it's a 150cc motorcycle or a ten speed with a 150cc engine.....let them drive it without having to pay for tax, tags, registration, or insurance. Make insurance optional for those who want it.

    Actually I think helmet should be optional. I think it is stupid to travel with out a helmet (see organ giver) but it should be the person's choice.
  20. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    As much as I hate regulation. I think a 50cc limit is a good STARTING point. In lots of states, like mine.... my motored bike is technically considered a motorcycle due to vague laws. If we can get it to that point, federally, where I can ride my 33cc BMX around the country without hassle from cops... then I'd be able to die happy.

    The limit right now seems more to do with speed than engine displacement. A 50cc engine could be made to do more than 50mph with NO transmission. Add something like a NuVinci hub to a 33cc engine, and you'd be able to hit 35mph pretty easily.

    Personally, I feel like the limit on motored bikes should be more toward the speed limit of, say 30mph... not their engine's displacement. Right now it's 20mph, and we all know that no 50cc MB has a top speed of 20mph or less, unless it's got 3inch wheels.

    I've been pondering the existence of registering a vehicle, getting a tag, etc., and the only valid reasons I can come up for requiring this is: safety, safety, safety. It's so that you can be tracked down if you have injured/killed somebody or have committed another wrongful action, like theft/vandalism.

    But this stuff isn't easy to do on motored bikes, which is why a 50cc limit is a better starting point than calling it a motorcycle.