I've got a MB question???????????

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by geebt48cc, May 14, 2013.

  1. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member


    Is there anyone that has really seen any betterment with using synthetic oils. Sure, a thin ratio I'm sure wouldn't help, but a 25:1 ratio would be sufficient. The reason I'm asking is because the quality of these engines isn't the best to begin with. Just trying to figure out if using any kind of synthetic or dead dinosaur really matters on these little china creations?????????????

    What you think? PS- I always use 1/3 of my mix Castor

  2. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    I don't think synthetic oil gives any more protection, just less smoke which is why I use synthetic at 30:1 ratio.
  3. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    I have a cheap China motor so I don't use synthetic oil. If I rode a really nice motor like a Honda, Subaru, Morini, etc, I would use synthetic oil.
  4. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Understand, understand, but couldn't synthetic oil help all of the hardware last maybe a few more miles longer?
  5. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    At the same ratios synthetic oil is more protective. But the idea is to take advantage of that extra protection by thinning the amount of oil down till the protection is the same.
  6. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Yes, that's my point. If at the same ratios synthetic oil is more protective, then wouldn't it be the smartest to use in these cheap china engines? Sure it would help bearing life, but just overall anatomy?

    Therefore, being able to get a few more miles, compared to original blends! Heck, looks like that would be the only way to go considering HT's track record?
  7. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    yeah, good point. I've been trying to sidestep the problem of cylinder chrome flaking off by using a motorcycle piston with thinner rings with less outward pressure. I've found a good substitute piston for the 48cc but not the 69cc. It only costs $30. Since synthetic oil is expensive I think that is a better solution. I will keep looking for a piston for the 69cc engine.
  8. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Please do Jag, because I've done just about everything to keep jug from getting battle scares. Motor has very strong compression, with a good burn, but it seems that every time I pull head off it's like the jug has cancer? Uno, I can locate a new chip???????????????

    Next time I have jug off, I'll show you what I'm talking about.
  9. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    one piston ring

    since some race pistons only have one ring I tried that with my std piston in my 60cc race engine. I removed the bottom ring and couldn't notice any power loss and so I think it may help deter rapid plating loss from the cylinder. I'd like others to try it and see what they think.
  10. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Uno, bottom line is I wish there was just a HT jug that just had a steel liner. Appears thatt would be easier to begin with?!
  11. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Considering i get 4,000 kilometers (2,500 miles) out of a cylinder and 10,000 kilometers (6,000 miles) out of a bottom end using the cheapest 2-stroke oil at 25:1, there is no point in even thinking about the use of synthetic oil.

    The extra cost of synthetic will not be proportional to any increased engine life.

    It's the same notion that a top quality chain is better than a dirt cheap chain, which does not pan out in real life, considering that i have tried a $10 generic 9 speed chain and a $150 Wipperman 9 speed chain. The difference in mileage life span was an extra 15% over the dirt cheap chain, yet the top quality stainless steel chain cost 15 times as much as the cheap generic.

    It would be a similar scenario for synthetic vs dirt cheap mineral 2-stroke oil, and a good part of the synthetic push was to enable running leaner oil/fuel ratios mandated by the ever tightening grip of the EPA.
    Lean oil ratios are not compatible with Chinese bicycle engines because they are made from rubbish grade aluminium; giving poor materials stability; which requires a heavier oil/fuel ratio to create a barrier seal between the cylinder bore and piston rings.
  12. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Fabian, then you are saying that using a cheap 2-stroke oil, vs a good synthetic 2-stroke oil at both ratio of 25:1, would both end up being the same wear on engine parts??

    I know we are talking about very low quality stuff here, but using either or would be the same? Right?
  13. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    If I was an amsoil dealer I'd say you can get 1000's of miles of extended life out of your motor and get 250 mpg using our magic in a bottle. Plus you can mix at 300 to 1.
  14. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Only 300:1

    I have heard some say that you can use that special miracle oil at 500:1 and it's "good for your engine" speaking in the most emotive manner.

    _____________* You wouldn't want to hurt your engine *
    __________________________________________________* You don't want to be a bad person*
    __________________________________________________________________________________* You like to be doing "good" for the internal parts *

    and you would never be seen engaging in mechanical torture by using bad old mineral oil that comes straight out of the ground; the very same kind of (non synthetic) oil that comes from the refinery and gets put straight into your fuel tank.

    If only the petroleum companies could legally call their fuel "synthetic", they would be able to charge twice as much for the same product with a percentage of consumers falling over themselves to pay double the price,


    it's good for my engine
  15. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    I'm saying that at 25:1 (with a correctly jetted carburettor) it will make little if any difference to engine longevity using synthetic oil versus a low cost "air cooled specification" mineral oil.
  16. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Just saying.......................

    Ok then? I've seen first hand the difference internally of synthetic vs just regular oil! I know what we are talking about here when it comes to quality metals, but it was very obvious the different of wear between same engine parts that didn't use synthetic.

    So, that being the case, one would believe that also you would find that to be true in just any type quality engine?
  17. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    In percentage terms, does the exta cost of synthetic 2-stroke oil vs the cheapest 2-stroke mineral oil make economic sense in the longevity of the engine, considering i can get 4,000 kilometers (2,500 miles) out of a cylinder (@ 25:1 oil/fuel ratio) and it costs $30 for a new cylinder?
  18. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    A 2-stroke engine does not use oil purely for lubrication and the lubricant value of the oil is only 1/3 of the equation.

    In a high specification water cooled 2-stroke engine, the situation is greatly different to the Chinese bicycle engines powering our pushbikes.
    Considering that those who use 2-stroke Chine bicycle engines are dealing exclusively with such technology, there is no point in trying to relate a higher technological specification to a rubbish grade (recycled) pots and pans quality 2-stroke engine.

    Sometimes you just have to accept that you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse by using a high specification 2-stroke engine oil, nor greatly extend it's life span using a premium priced oil.

    If i can get 4,000 kilometers (2,500 miles) out of a cylinder with the engine working it's guts out at virtually 100% duty cycle using the cheapest air cooled specification 2-stroke oil at 25:1 and a replacement cylinder is worth $30, why would i use a premium priced (ester based) synthetic and how much greater would the life span of the engine be prolonged by using a higher specification oil - 5%, 10% 20% ???

    You can get premium grade synthetic 2-stroke oil for $40 per litre (quart), yet i can purchase a complete Chinese bicycle engine for $100.

    I challenge anyone to build an economic case for using anything other than the cheapest (air cooled specification) 2-stroke oil in the cheapest sector of Chinese engines.
  19. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

    seems the question could be answered if the SAE rating on the container was higher for synthetic than for natural
  20. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Very good point Crassius.

    Have you ever thought about if using synthetic, in replacement to straight line 2-stroke oil? I bet it might double longevity from 2,500, to 5,000 before you have to worry about it?? (Not to mention bathing though's weak bearing, and just burning cleaner internally)

    (Cheap or not cheap, it would prolong life)
    Last edited: May 16, 2013