Jackshaft heavy duty freewheel breakdown

Discussion in 'Transmission / Drivetrain' started by Frankenstein, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Litteral break down. Friend had his rupture and so I gave him my freewheel for the time being, now I get to open them up. Mind that sickbikeparts sells a freewheel remover tool for use with the products they sell, don't buy it though because it isn't the right size, I had to hammer the knobs in towards the middle to make it catch the spline cuts on the freewheel.

    2016-12-22 23.16.03.jpg

    1: is that freewheel body, these are probably custom made by white industries, who is the company who supplies them the whole freewheel.

    2: This is the inner race of the 6808 bearing used to mate the inside and outside freewheel parts together. One if the seals hopped into the bearing and blew it up into tiny bits, maybe 1 or 2 surviving ball bearings left.
    20161222_181325.jpg
    3: inner assembly and blue lockring. This part holes the paws and the spring to catch the inner surface of that outer freewheel. 20161222_181400.jpg

    4: a rubber o-ring, retains the paws and has a sealing property.

    5 the remaining shield, it's got the manufacturer, Enduro, printed with the bearing type.

    6: 2 of the 3 paws and a small leaf spring. The paws themselves look like they are in working condition, it was just the bearing that imploded.

    They actually machined the freewheel assembly to accept the rubber shield from one side of the bearing, that protect the paws from getting material in them. On this one something got between the crank and the freewheel and busted the seal.

    The bike shop gave a base price of 15 bucks on the phone, which is 5 bucks cheaper than anything online. I will get one from them, and press it into place, then go about my other projects once it works. Better than the 70 or 80 charged for a new whole freewheel.
     

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    FurryOnTheInside likes this.

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  2. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Well-Known Member

    Scary. You're screwed if this happens far from home. :eek:
    So it sounds like a double row bearing (as in their ultra heavy duty freewheel) wouldn't have prevented this type of failure. What got in between the crank arm and freewheel to force the seal out of place, was it a trouser leg?
     
  3. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    I'm guessing a botched attempt at oiling since he wanted to get grease inside, it was a year since it was installed and thought it needed it.

    We removed my crank and freewheel from my bike today to serve in its place, mine was never opened or serviced, and felt and looked sound, so it's safe to say that it's better left intact unless you can properly feed it, mine has 2 years now I think on it without problems, I actually busted the pedal out of my threads on my crank but nothing else has problems.

    A double wouldnt likely survive a shield in the bearings either, it's one of THOSE things.

    Good news is a new bearing can be found for a nice price, also recommending now that anti-sieze is put on those threads, I had to use a bench vice and a one pound hammer and a wrench and 4 hands to break it loose. Even grease would be a good idea, anything to let you take it apart due maintenance time...
     
  4. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    An 80 pound bench vice too... Was wracking at it for a good half hour before anything happened.
     
  5. skyash

    skyash Active Member

    I made one .its a stock sprocket from a back wheel welded in a pedal sprocket so it's got spin back
     

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    zippinaround likes this.
  6. gary55

    gary55 Well-Known Member

    I had one of the heavy duty ones freeze up where the pawls wouldn't disengage. I was close to home so I just rode home with my legs sticking straight out. In another thread I mentioned this, and the guy from SBP (Pablo?) said they had a prob. with them as a few were sent out from the factory without the seals installed. Factory defect that has been corrected.
     
  7. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    I believe most of the time my nuvinci was on the bike I was using that freewheel, it in either case, I have one single chain on my chainring to rear, friend has a derailleur, he kept bending his axle and that broke chains or threw them, they probably caused his freewheel to break under bad or sudden loads. He never kick starts or pedal starts the motor, only uses a pull... His breakdown was purely drivetrain related, however I remember him having one hell of an engine at a time and it was ripping through everything in the drivetrain too.

    I'm confident I'll be able make work again.

    About the seal problem, I bet it did happen! The manufacturer was supposed to remove the seal from one spot on the bearing and reinstall elsewhere on the assembly. If they forgot to put in the right place then the bearing would probably fail as soon as sand hits the bottom of the bike from the front wheel.
     
  8. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    I'm glad you did that, I was almost about to do the same thing just for the challenge with an old rear freewheel that I removed the cogs from.

    Congrats for making it work so wheel! Lol, funny enough the drawings I made in my head had similar weld patterns that you picked. Nice! Very cool.

    Obviously steel is steel, it has all the same properties as any other steel object really.
    Break out the welder and build it!
     
  9. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    I believe in build over buy to a fairly strong extent. Steve knows how it can get sometimes and being living in the middle of a very scarcely populated area. When you can't get something because it's just not available then you need to learn to work with what you have and know. Knowing a lot and having the right tools will make all things pretty easy when you can't buy something, or at least save your ass for some time.

    That's why I love these forums too, definitely a nice catalog of endeavors related to our bikes. Pictures make it even better as it gives people an idea or dream to chase.

    But in all seriousness, do it right, do it once, and be safe, I saw a guy earlier today with a motorized bike, I almost wanted to take his bike and drag it away because it had busted front shocks, rear brakes disconnected, and he wasn't wearing a helmet and his clutch cable was loose and non operational.....

    More like a death machine at that point.

    Gave him my clutch cable nut so he'd be less likely to die and exchanged phone numbers. Hopefully he'll be alive when I check up on him next.
     
  10. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    20161223_205027.jpg

    Got this bearing for 10 bucks at the local bike shop, it's not the right size but it will do fine as I only have to trim half a mm off the outer race. According to manufacturer specs this bearing should have 1.25mm of metal between the bearing and the outside of the race. There will be .75 mm left when I'm done.

    This is a stainless steel bearing so the metalwork will be really easy. Since the outer race is resting against (thick) machined steel, so the load capability shouldn't be affected at all.

    It's going to become a backup anyway. The ultra heavy duty is going to replace it as it has 2 bearings, which by the longevity the regular heavy duty shows the ultra will probably last the life of the bike, when cared for properly.
     
  11. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    A few comments.

    "Mind that sickbikeparts sells a freewheel remover tool for use with the products they sell, don't buy it though because it isn't the right size......"

    We actually sell multiple FW removal tools, because we sell multiple FW's and there is not exactly a single standard. Not sure how you ended up with the incorrect tool, but contacting us we could have helped you out.

    As for the actual failure.......

    ".....botched attempt at oiling since he wanted to get grease inside, it was a year since it was installed and thought it needed it........"

    We don't recommend grease, so again with the contacting us part. It's possible his attempt didn't get the snap ring seated, hard to say.

    But for the people reading this: we do offer a warranty, we do sell spare parts after the warranty, we have lube instructions if needed and yes we do sell the correct tool. And lastly we provide strong and timely support as we have for almost 10 years - please contact us if you have an issue. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
    Henkster likes this.
  12. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Yes thank you, I know you sell spare parts, your listing for the appropriate tool was probably messed up along the line, it was purchased almost a year ago? Needed to swap chainring and hadn't known if this would be needed. Used it recently and it slipped off the freewheel multiple times untill I used a hammer to fix the tool, had the right one but I guess the pegs were misaligned for my freewheel type.

    As for the actual failure, obviously that was covered. You also replaced and repaired this freewheel before. Maybe a year ago, beginning of its start of service date. He didn't refer to the manual completely and the shield was the main problem once it died, course for all I know it was the hidden shield that got blown, or something else happened. He did not do it properly, he lifted a shield and put grease or oil or whatever inside while this was on the bike. Cross contamination is a problem at times.

    My freewheel is, for all intensive reasons, fine. No wobble or gritty spots in its turns. You don't sell spare bearings but it's understandable why, you'd lose money. Also I will say that you installed a 6808 bearing shield in the freewheel, it survived which is how I ended up with a too big bearing lol... The blue lockring type uses a 6708 bearing which you certainly know. If the shields are exactly the same then by no means would it be your fault it failed.

    Now all parts were outside the warranty, and any time we had a problem with your stuff while under warranty you've been more than helpful. Which is why you'll be getting an order for the most expensive freewheel you sell and undoubtedly will get more business from us in the future.

    Didn't knock the company other than the bad freewheel tool, but it worked anyways and personally if I didn't make the tool work I would have taken to the shop and had it yanked. Then the tool would just sit till it was needed next.

    Just giving people an idea of what makes the part and what can be done to salvage useful parts. Since you don't sell bearings and for about 20 bucks one can get the actual type online I figured I'd put it out there. Unless you recently started selling bearings then great.

    I would say that buying a new freewheel is a bad idea if you do it once a year, easier to get a stack of bearings and just replace that part when you feel its needed. To make it better most work can be done without removing the freewheel from the crank if one was interested in only replacing the bearings.

    I use a different formula than you for bearing lube, but it's fine since it's actually oil for derby skating, which is pretty rough on bearings and demands very high rpm from the wheel, sometimes a wheel can get hot enough to sizzle spit, the oils need to be resistant to that and are.

    Merry Christmas!
     
  13. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    We do sell the bearings, but we don't have them on our site. We should probably get them up there, but wasn't an intention to have people buy a whole new FW. Just not that many fail.

    Here: http://www.sickbikeparts.com/Manuals/Instructions_Freewheel_Disassembly.pdf

    We've had two+ tools since day one with the HD.

    And here: http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=233

    Other one: http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=64

    Thanks and Merry Christmas to you!!
     
  14. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah, you sell 2 types, part# 233 and 64, mind you the listing says standard freewheel (the definition of standard lets lots of room for interpretation) and doesn't specify that it won't work on heavy or ultra heavy or super duper duty.

    Now he was the one that was desperate to oil it. He said it felt wonky. I didn't touch mine and still haven't, and might not even bother.

    I forewarned him to do it the right way and when I found out what he did I made a face and he said it felt fine after, actually said it was better..

    Just so everyone knows I highly suggest following proper technique when dealing with ANY bearing or bearing containing object. Unless your riding on ceramic balls and have debri resistant cages in the bearing then you will have to take proper steps at care.
     
  15. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Point taken!!!! We have struggled for a name for our lowest cost FW. Could use ideas. "Standard", "Regular", ???

    Also we did have a FW removal tool #101, which we discontinued when we added the UHD FW. The tool #233 fits both the HD and UHD FW's but not the lower cost FW.

    Now to make this even more complex, we are adding a mid-range front FW in January (around $50). I know - too many SKU's. But customers like the choices.
     
  16. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Oh and thanks Frank N. Stein!!
     
  17. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    No problem, it's Frankenstein, and in case anyone cares found an extra half hour and got a 10th of a mm off, started with 51... (don't ask why it's upsidedown this phone takes its own pictures I sorta just supervise it)
    20161224_154542.jpg
     
  18. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Oh sorry I got a 20th of a mm, it's just doubled across the diameter of the bearing... Still, a 10th of the way through my goal of 50mm.. So if it took a half hour then it should take only about 5 hours to do it right. Since it's the holiday and I have plenty of free time this won't be a problem. Perhaps the busier folk would benefit from buying the exact right bearing. If you got time just use it and do it right.
     
  19. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Down a bit more..

    20161225_210917.jpg

    This is that fancy jig I got, it's just a dremel stand, for small work it's one of the most versatile tools a person can just have...

    20161225_210238.jpg
     
  20. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Dare I, senior citizens?
    20161227_214056.jpg
     
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