just a few questions before i start building

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Mr. Manta Ray, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    I figured i would get some good advice from people who know what they are doing before i start so here they are i am using a honda gcv 160 5.5 hp lawn mower engine with a vertical shaft on a schwinn manta ray bike it seems the only two ways to get a vertical shaft to work for this are to one use a belt that twists to a spool on the tire or two use a wheel of some sort to rub directly on the rim to drive so because of how the engine needs to be mounted it seems like #2 is my only choice unless somebody has some better ideas also my clutch system was to have a mechanism to shift the engine away from the tire so that the peice no longer rubs on the rim thus the tire stomps moving any comments would be much appreciated

  2. Youngbird

    Youngbird Member

    Save up a little loot and buy a good kit. Dont mess with a vertical shaft unless you are a real fabricator. China kits are OK....some say great. I prefer a 4stroke....I'd use a $99.oo 2.5 hp Harbor Freight engine to get started....but hey....thats just me.
  3. Esteban

    Esteban Active Member

    YEP. Too much work/parts involved making a vertical shaft powered bike.
  4. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    one possibility might be a roto-tiller gearbox. This would rotate the drive axis by 90 degrees, and reduce the RPM so that it's near what the rear wheel needs to be at. However, there are some disadvantages...
    1. power loss in the gearbox
    2. The need to add a clutch. A centrifugal, or even a belt clutch could be added before the gearbox, or, a belt-clutch after it.
    3. The weight of the gearbox
    4. Complexity of the solution

    Here's two other possible approaches:
    • One member has modified a vertical shaft engine to the horizontal by swapping the oil dipper (splasher,) inside the crankcase.
    • A couple of members have advocated a vertical engine friction drive. Using a pair of rollers (an idler on one side of the tire, and the friction roller on the other. On the surface, this will work. However, a vertical drive roller will contact the tire in the sidewall, where it's the thinnest, AND, the roller is against the tire at a range of diameters from the axle. This means that the roller will have a scrubbing action against the tire, as at a given RPM, the portion of the roller farthest from the axle will try to drive the wheel faster than the portion nearest the axle. This will lead to additional friction and wear, and, unfortunately, it's where the tire is least able to handle it. Who wants a sidewall blowout??? It would probably happen when you're stressing the tire sidewall more than usual (i.e. - in a turn...) Can you say 'Wipeout?'
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  5. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    well first off i don't want to buy a kit because i have plenty of stuff at my fingertips to make this work and if you don't build it your self whats the point its not yours its something you bought building it is half the fun and the the method i was wondering about was on the rim side wall were it can withstand the friction and such not the tire sidewall, but any comments are appreciated so thanks
  6. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    I have seen a verticle shaft on the sidewall setup on youtube...I would post a link, but we are having 'net problems here right now.

    It's always good to do what it takes to build things yourself....but until yours is done and working better than anyone's here who started with a kit, I would be a little more gentle about criticizing others for choosing a different path....and besides, with most of these kits it's pretty close to building it yourself.

  7. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    any other ideas/suggestions/comments will be appreciated
  8. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    any other input please what about a roller on one side and a drive roller on the other then no bent rim and i don't have to put it on the tire where it will blow out and wear at my tire sidewall
  9. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    I saw the same youtube as Mr. Hough. I can't find it again, but that is exactly what the gentleman did. The idler roll was set to just touch, and the engine was on a slide mechanism to engage. Other than looking a bit top heavy it seemed to work quite well. One thing to look for is make sure the flywheel is steel. Many vertical shaft engines use the blade as part of the flywheel inertia.

  10. Porkchop

    Porkchop Member

    Personaly I don't think sidewall is a good idea. Sidewalls are usually a bit thiner than the tread surface. Years ago when I was a kid, there was always a problem with generator lights that were powered by a roller that was driven by the sidewall. The sidewalls always seemed to wear out prematurely. These generators are available today. I can't imagine why anyone would want one though over newer technology unless they just want the old vintage look. Anyway, I'd think twice before buiilding a friction drive that attaches to the sidewall.
  11. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    I'll vouch for the "no-sidewall" recommendations. I tried building one about a dozen years ago or so. Perhaps I could have even made it work, except that the slightest slippage ruined tires in an instant.

    The OP is talking about contact with the wheel sidewall, I realize. But the tolerances will be tight. Anything less than perfect adjustment will mean contact between the drive and the tire sidewall.

    Maybe it can still be done, but it'll require zero contact.
  12. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    ya i think i will try it on the rim thanks sorry my computer is messed up so i can't watch videos right now so that is why i asked thanks also i am thinking of using a disk brake thing for it to rub on instead of the rim any ideas
  13. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    What about using a roto-tiller gearbox? The RPM range would be in the right ballpark, and the rotation would be horizontal...
  14. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    i don't really know where to get a roto-tiller gearbox or how to hook it up much less mount it but if you could give some advice i might think about it there is something like that on the lawn mower i got the engine from it used a belt off the engine shaft above the blade and made the front wheels turn but that will be really slow
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
  15. Danny3xd

    Danny3xd Member

    That is just plain, dang brilliant! I wish I had thunk 'o dat! I really did search a lot and the worm gears I found were crazy bucks expensive. Easy to change the ratio via the drive shaft pully or sprocket. Good Job Loq, thanks!

    The lawn mower engines coming out of late would (will) make really great looking rack mounts! (And work awesomely) Replacement vertical shafted lawn mower engines are mass produced and cheap. Look cool and will work great! Win, win, win.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
  16. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Here's one I did last year. Honda GX25 into a generic Home Depot minitiller gearbox. It went 20-22 mph @ about 240 mpg. Got 27 mph out of it once on a downhill, but it didn't like it. :devilish: Ran fairly trouble free for about 1800 miles.

    If you put a generic kart clutch on the crankshaft and a matching sprocket on the tiller gearbox shaft, and coupled then with a 2-40 chain (the double stuff) it would work. Maybe a little cumbersome, but no worse than some of my contraptions. :grin5:


    Attached Files:

  17. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    That would be

    A good engine for a pusher trailer.. check them out !!!
    Kinda Cool...
  18. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    sorry dan i am a little confused on what you are talking about care to explain
  19. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    ibdennyak where could i get a gear box that would be easy to put together and not make me lose to much power also has anyone ever thought of doing a vertical engine friction drive on a disk brake pad for a bike rather than on the rim or tire it seems like it might be a really good idea no tire blow outs
  20. Mr. Manta Ray

    Mr. Manta Ray New Member

    here is my plan i will have a clutch on the handlebars like a brake and it will pull the engine away form the rim and i will have a throttle control so it is not all out all the time also i will try to design something to widen the rim so that i can put the friction drive on the rim more easily rather than on the tire then there is more griping area. ALSO if anyone knows where i can possibly find some parts for a schwinn manta ray 2005 that would be great because i can't find it anywhere on the internet and the people at the local bike shops can't really help i just need the parts for a schwinn coaster brake so all the guts in the back axle the pros at the bike store said it is generic so really any schwinn coaster brake will work for mine i just need to find some on the internet so please keep your eyes peeled thanks