Laws in Daytona florida says our bikes are okay

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by davidsis, Mar 31, 2008.

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  1. davidsis

    davidsis Guest

    Hey look at this that I found on the internet.

    City of

    Codified through
    Ord. No. 07-184, adopted May 16, 2007.
    (Supplement No. 23)

    This publication is up to date as indicated by the banner above. No additional ordinances have been submitted for interim display via our NOW service (New Ordinances On the Web). For more information about this service, please visit:



    Sec. 94-1. Definitions.
    The definitions in this section will be used in addition to those enumerated in section 1-2. The following words, terms and phrases, when used in this chapter, shall have the meanings ascribed to them in this section, except where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:
    Bicycle means any device propelled by human power or any moped propelled by pedal-activated helper motor not to exceed 1 1/2 bhp (break horse-power) upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, either of which is 20 inches or more in diameter, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels.
    Vehicle means any device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks or bicycles or mopeds.
    (Code 1970, Sec. 45-4) is a good web page to go to see if you can ride it because of a city ordinance just what I was looking for
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015

  2. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    Just make sure that it is a PEDAL-ACTIVATED helper motor.
    (FYI... There is no such thing as a Gas Powered Pedelec{pedal activated motor} as far as I have seen.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015
  3. mabman

    mabman Member

    If you can pedal enough to bump start the motor then it is pedal activated.
  4. RidingJesus

    RidingJesus New Member

    Even if you do start it by hand, you still have to pedal it to get rolling without putting stress on the clutch, and further yet, some areas or terrain, it's better to pedal anyway.

    If it has pedals, and you use them, it's pedal assist.
  5. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    Forget about a clutch... Has NOTHING to do with it. If you have a clutch, it's a moped (but NOT a bicycle as they say) because in order for it to be a bicycle it has to be....
    Pedal - activated motor.
    Not pedal assisted...

    Here's a definition...
    So a pedal activated motor means, you have to be pedaling for the bicycle to move... The second you start using a throttle, it's power on demand.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  6. ZnsaneRyder

    ZnsaneRyder Member

    Really, a clutch makes a bike a moped? It's stated nowhere. Where do you get this information? Why interpret the law and bend it to fit your argument?

    Are you out to prove something sangesf?

    Are you so upset by your encounter of the law and jealous of others, that you are trying to stop everyone in FL from using gas-efficient engines? I've had encounters with the law myself, when I had my valid license BTW, and I'm not out to stop anyone from riding. I encourage riding MB's so it will be more accepted and so Police don't harass folks out riding out of pure necessity.

    Why are you pushing the drivers license thing so hard? You know there's people out there riding the majority of their miles because they are LOOKING FOR A JOB in order to get a license, and trying to keep people from riding is not helping anyone to get a license! It also does not help the atmosphere of MBC whatsoever.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  7. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    Ok, let's get some things straight....

    1.) You pulled the ONE part of my entire argument where is miss spoke to make your argument...???, In other words, if you're using a clutch to control the motor, then you are obviously NOT using a PEDAL ACTIVATED MOTOR.. Unless you can show me a (normally used) Pedal activated AND Clutch activated motor.

    2.) Yes I am. Proving that when you add a gas motor to a bicycle, it turns it into a moped for State Driver Licensing purposes.
    I've been using Public Transportation and Electric Bicycles for OVER A DECADE! So by that, I mean, you can do it with electric!

    3.) Am I upset? No.
    Am I jealous? Yes
    (But you have to understand, that's not because OF the others, its MY fault)
    Am i trying to STOP everyone in FL from using a gas engine? NO
    I'm not trying to stop anyone from using a Motorized Bicycle. As long as people are aware that unless it's an ELECTRIC motor, it's a Moped and you need a license. Use a gas-efficient engine, ABSOLUTELY, but please use it legally. Of course, it wouldn't matter if you've had encounters with the law, when you had your valid DL, when you're legal, you're legal! If you want to encourage it be more accepted, HELP CHANGE THE LAW the LEGAL way. Don't tell people that they are doing something legal, when they are definitely NOT!

    4.) I'm pushing for being legal... sorry if that offends you (or you think "it doesn't help the atmosphere of MBC whatsoever") but sorry, that's MY opinion. Just like everyone else, I lost my license FOR A REASON.. Guess what that reason was.... Surprise!! FOR BREAKING THE LAW! I've done something wrong and now I have to pay for it! (Whether I believe I should or shouldn't doesn't matter)
    I'm also curious as to how you think using an electric bicycle would stop someone from looking for or getting a job? I travel 3 miles to the train station, 30 mins on the train and 2 miles to work. (Takes about 45 mins for a 30 mile trip to work)

    In case you didn't know, these days, costing from $600 to $1000, you can get a LiFePO4 Battery, and a 500w Electric Motor for a Bicycle that will do 20 to 30 mph, that will travel between 20 and 30 miles and makes (almost) NO noise and it's STILL LEGAL!!! (Speaking for Florida)
    Not to mention the fact, that not only is it ZERO emissions, but it's CHEAPER than gas! You can ALSO use it to travel to the Train/Bus Station, PUT IT ON THE TRAIN OR BUS, get from the train/bus to work.

    I should ask YOU, why are you encouraging people to break the law?

    My .02.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  8. junkyard

    junkyard New Member

    no offence but i think if sang didnt lose his or her DL then they would never have joined this forum or even considered riding an MB
  9. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    No offense taken. (Unlike the other guy, he's taking everything personal.)

    You're probably right about me joining this forum because of My DL and my MB, but then again... I DO currently ride an (electric powered) Motorized Bike and I DID lose my License. (No one else's fault but MY OWN!)
    Just because it's electric, doesn't mean it's any less motorized, nor do I think anyone thinks any less of me because it's not gas, nor should I.

    Cause and Effect dude....
    If I were driving around in a Lamborghini because I had millions of dollars in the bank, I would probably join a Lamborghini forum. And then one might say...

    "If sang didn't have millions of dollars in the bank, he would never have joined this forum or even considered driving a Lamborghini"

    Point Taken?

    Oh and FYI, just so everyone knows... I think his idea about the bike and push-trailer is pretty f'in cool!
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  10. ZnsaneRyder

    ZnsaneRyder Member

    ANY HT 2-stroke engine kit, the engine is activated by turning the pedals to start the engine when you release the clutch. Also, the throttle controls the engine, not the clutch. The clutch controls the engagement of the engine to the chain, and is part of the drivetrain. The clutch also allows you to pedal the bicycle WITHOUT starting the engine. Again, the clutch does NOT make it a Moped! You obviously do not know anything technically about these gas bicycles to make such a blind statement.

    And you trying to prove this is not helping anyone here, but it's simply to prove your own individual cause because you lost your license. If you were out to help others, you would recommend proper ways to ride and avoid law problems, instead of just saying that they need a license, because you don't have one.

    Why be jealous? Jealousy is a negative and destructive emotion that does no good. Just accept what happened to you, as I have had to do, and move on with life. I don't bother people about what they ride because I got pulled over (wrongly BTW). I got smart, decided to keep riding, and changed the look of my ride, and talked in person to 10 different Police Officers, and NOT ONE can legally do anything about my trailer, but some sure tried, and failed EVERY TIME. Many officers LIKED my ride and complemented it! Now I've not been bothered by ANY MORE POLICE. Think about it.

    Push for it being legal by helping to change the laws so no licensing of any kind is required for Mopeds or supposedly bicycles.

    And how does electric make it hard to find a job???..........$600-$1000 dollars for a LiFePO4 Lithium battery, and several hundred more for the bike and motor, and ONLY 30 miles range one way, and you have to take a train? You gotta be kidding. I live 12 miles away from the city limits, it's a BIG city, and one round trip in town, and the battery would be dead before I got anywhere near home! If I had the $$$ for THAT, by the time I spent that much, I could have my license AND my car fixed, with money left over! I wanted electric at first, but I had to settle for gas due to COST! I can go 100miles on 2.00 of gas! THAT'S WHY most don't do electric!

    I'm not. I'm encouraging people to Beat The System of total control. That is legal.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  11. ZnsaneRyder

    ZnsaneRyder Member

    It's not personal, it's about the cause of motored biking, and wrongly categorized stuff like our trailers, and bikes.

    If you look up Florida Motored Biking laws on google, THESE threads at MBC are the FIRST things that show up. People and police that don't know what's going on read these threads and may get the wrong ideas.

    I'm glad you like my trailer, I just wanted to set things straight. I built it with the full intention of being legal, by being between the lines and guidelines that haven't been crossed yet by the law.

    I really wanted to go electric, but I had to settle for gasoline power, and this was the best way I knew how to continue to have transportation, and not be stuck at home depressed because I can't go anywhere to make any money, or have a life. I'm almost 30 years old, I refuse to be grounded like a child, I chose my freedom in the best way I knew how.

    I want to keep MBC fun by us helping each other out. More yes's, and less no's..
  12. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    Pedal Activated Motor means that the act of pedaling makes the motor turn. You stop pedaling the motor stops. And that is a fact. Pull any definitions you want, but that is the idea behind a Pedal Activated Motor. Every law in every country that uses the "Pedelec" term (a.k.a Pedal Activated Motor) , is speaking of such a device, like I was trying to say, the Clutch does NOT MATTER, nor does a throttle, because on a Pedal Activated motor uses NEITHER by definition for the purposes of my discussion and you know it.

    All other definitions you wish to come up with have no weight in terms in which I (and the law) are using it.

    And I don't know why you have to try to bring personal attacks on people that disagree with you.

    All those "arguments" against what I was stating were attempts at being personal in nature, very sophomoric and funny, because you take it personally when I do not.

    You obviously didn't read my statements in full, because I even admitted being jealous (because of what I DID, NOT because of others) I AM allowed to be jealous, and that is MY problem, no one elses, NOR did I attempt to make it anyone's problem. YOU were trying to make it sound like I did to make yourself look "holier than thou".

    Let's say for the sake of argument, that you're bike/trailer is legal... You can't ride it legally faster than 20 mph on an open road anyways. My Bike costs me .08 a day to run. (Plus the fact that I don't have to worry about the myriad mechanical issues with an ICE nor pollution (even tho a 4 stroke don't do much) ) I charge it up at work, at a coffee house, or anywhere else there is an electrical outlet, so your argument about getting back an forth to work is moot. I will agree that I can't go far as you on a charge, but for an extra $200 (with my current setup) I can go 50 to 100 miles. I can even go so far as to say for a total of about $700 I can do this...
    On a 24" bicycle I would spend $200 for a 250w electric Motor, and $500 for a 24v 50ah Battery and get 100 miles on a charge.

    On the matter of jealousy... (I was admitting being jealous that people had licenses and for NO OTHER reason. I even admitted it was MY OWN FAULT AND NO ONE ELSES.)

    As a matter of fact, on my current bicycle, it has a 250w motor, and I've added a larger (24v 40ah) battery to it, two front headlights, a rear red light, a rear red reflector, Neon lights underneath (blue), a neon light bar on the back (that lights up when I hit the brakes), a radio, amp, speakers, turn signals, a car-type cigarette lighter, a windshield, 24v-12v converter, a space for my iPhone to plug into the radio and it looks like a Chopper. It weighs (without all the stuff on it), 90lbs (it's made of steel and chrome, not alum.) and with everything on it about 115 (the battery makes up 20lbs of it) and I can go 40 miles (at 20mph) on a single charge.

    Total cost? Let's see...
    $90 for Bike (craiglist and it came WITH the motor)
    $240 for the battery (ebay - I got lucky)
    $120 for all the amenities.

    TOTAL = $450
    I have a VERY COOL looking Chopper Bike with ALL the amenities you could ever want or need on an MB (excluding a roof) and you think I'm jealous of YOU or anyone else for having a gas powered "bicycle"?

    Now THAT'S funny.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  13. ZnsaneRyder

    ZnsaneRyder Member

    How does it pedal without the motor running?
  14. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    It's not easy, I can tell you that. Without motor power it's hard to get going, but once you're up to 10mph, it's really easy because of it's weight... Without the battery on it at all, it's MUCH better.
  15. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    that's not much horse power ???

    looks like for you all to be truly legal with a gas engine
    1.5 max for the horse power
    that's not much -- even one of the Robins has a 1.6 HP
    and many of the other engines mentioned around here have even more HP

    but -- as many MB riders have found out (state to state)(country to country)
    a slight bit over some laws either here or there seems not to matter much
    as long as
    we are riding in a civil manner and doing our best to obey state laws

    trying not to forget
    the local pooolice wish to be pleased also !!!
    yes - the local Cities can also make up their own ordinances regarding MBs
    we have two close Cities that don't enjoy MB riding
    I do some ghost pedalling when going through there...

    as I ride the motor bike
  16. junkyard

    junkyard New Member

    oh i tried an electric conversion first......was ok but wasnt powerfull enuff and lithium hadnt really hit the general markets yet

    next was a pocket bike motor on a bike but i couldnt keep the pedals so it just has footpegs......that bike got 13 miles on it and has sit in my house for the past few yrs......wasnt legal to ride

    honestly if batteries were light enuff and powerful enuff id perfer electric....but not gas it is

    i lost my license when i was 18 so that wasnt meant as an insult

    i built an MB because i wanted to....not cuz i had to.....thats all i was tryin to say

    i hope when you get your DL issue worked out you still ride an MB even if you end up with a lamborghini

    and znsane has had alot of personal exp with cops and ridin his out of curiousity
  17. junkyard

    junkyard New Member

    where are the pics man?
  18. Gene

    Gene Member

    This thread lives on and on but today I visited the DMV in Punta Gorda Florida and I had a wonderful conversation with one of their personnel. After explaing all facets of the arguments heard here and explained what I owned , the official came to a quick conclusion that I had neither a motorcycle or a moped but a Motorized bicycle that was not subject to a title, registration, or plate. What were the factors that went into that decision was the following Pedals Yes under 50cc Yes less than 2 brake horsepower and not to exceed 30 mph without clutching AFTER the drive system is engaged. Done
    I politely asked if I could have a copy of the rules that were used to come to that conclusion. The official said no problem and printed them for me. They also suggested I carry them to inform errant Police Officers of the laws should I be stopped. I will laminate them and keep them in my saddle bad If you need a copy look for Procedure RS 61 Subject Motorcycles , Mopeds, and Disability Vehicles From the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles Division of Motor Vehicles revision date 02/01/08 pages RS-61 -01 to RS-61 -03 Go to bed and get a good night's rest
  19. sangesf

    sangesf New Member

    Links are in my sig.

    The issue in question (for me at least) was whether you needed a DL to use it. That answer is YES, YOU NEED a Drivers License.

    The issue as to whether you can get it registered or titled, was NOT an issue. You can NOT get it registered as a Moped, but that has ONLY to do with tags and registration and has NOTHING to do with whether you need a Driver's License to operate it on a public road. (THAT answer being yes.)

    My question to you Gene, is .... Do you have a current FL Driver's license? Or are you trying to use the fact that you can't register/title it as a moped as an attempt to use it without a valid license?
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  20. Gene

    Gene Member

    You are a silly man. Sorry. if you can't title it, you cant register it, you can't get a plate for it , and it is considered merely a bicycle. then who needs a DL for a bicycle. There are no age limitations either. Aren't you tired from all of this yet?