Legislative control freaks in Oregon

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by upshifter, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. upshifter

    upshifter Member

    Motorized bicycles are considered mopeds in Oregon; and mopeds must have lights, horn, flashers, and meet other standards. Mopeds must be licensed and insured, and the operator must have a valid drivers license. One can dig that information out by following different threads on ODOT, a bureaucratic maze of conflicting statements and jargon. (That way, they can interpret the laws any way they want.)

    I often fix up old Honda Trail 90s, and just to change the title costs $50.00. ODOT has made an art from bureaucracy right from the Soviet Union's play book. The state, like gatekeepers, will not license any motorbike having a VIN number that starts with "L", because the special interest groups in Oregon know that an "L" designates something from China.

    I once traded two Honda Trail 90s even, to a dealer for a pristine Yamaha XT225 dual sport, one of my favorite bikes of all time. Also, I sold a Chinese dual sport 200cc bike to the dealer. I had wiggled my way through ODOT and got it licensed. My friend tried to sell his Chinese 200cc dual sport a month later, and the dealer bought it also. But, the laws had changed, and neither he nor the dealer knew it. The dealer got stuck with the Chinese bike, and couldn't sell it because of the "L" in the VIN number. Go figure.

    Since I live in the country, I'm going to build my motored bike as stealthy as I can. I'll probably figure out how to change the kit's gas tank that makes the bicycle look more like a motorcycle. I'll do some other things to make it appear neutral and blend into the surroundings without getting in their face with it.

    If there are ways to get around Oregon law with motored bikes, other than Electric power, I would like to know how. Maybe someone from Oregon on this forum knows how to do it?

  2. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    Call their bluff, let a jury decide, subpeona every one of them and force them to pedal a moped one mile THEN ask them how that is the same as a bicycle. .

    A jury will laugh it out of court.
  3. mabman

    mabman Member

    Or Dot

    From the OR DOT website: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehicle/pocketbike_factsheet.shtml

    Motor-assisted Scooter

    According to ORS 801.348, a motor-assisted scooter:
    Is designed to be operated on the ground with not more than three wheels;
    Has handlebars and a foot support or seat;
    Can be propelled by human or motor;
    Has a motor capable of propelling it no faster than 24 miles per hour on a level road; and
    Has a motor no bigger than 35 cubic centimeters or, if electric, has a power output of no more than 1,000 watts.

    A 35cc motor will give plenty enough oomph, it is no 90 but it is within the regs. 24 mph is kind of slow but using jurisprudence I am sure you could average that. 1,000 watts is a very powerful electric motor! Oh, and nothing about automatic transmission either, Sick!
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2008
  4. upshifter

    upshifter Member

    They think they are making everyone safer. Since when was it a function of government to protect me from myself? The politicians always look for soft targets to attack; that way they don't have to deal with the really important problems, and they can justify their positions when there is no justification.

    In a way, I don't care if those bureaucrats and elected officials in Salem don't do anything for me; the problem is they are always trying to do things to me.

    It's gotten now to where the bureaucrats, wired in and not elected, make their own rules for us sheeple, and those rules are enforced like laws. The bureaucrat dictators, without the benefit of legislation, make "Administrative Rules", and those rules cover all sorts of things in our lives but common sense.

    I guess I'm just a bitter old man who has lived a long time, and I remember when there was more freedom, and fewer rules. I'm going to ride my bike anyway.
  5. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    I'm not all that old. But I can remember a time when there was more freedom and fewer rules, too.

    I never would have believed it would happen. And when I complain about it, people get mad at me.

    But at least there's one guy here who mostly agrees with you, upshifter.
  6. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    have fun as you ride that THING anyway

    sounds like your best bet --

    doubt that you will even get stopped

    have fun as you ride that THING anyway
  7. mabman

    mabman Member

    I ain't no sheeple so leave me out of that flock. I too have lived enough to know of the freedoms that have been stripped from us. But some of us are not going to be led so easily to slaughter and don't follow the MSM way.

    Going stealth is not the way to go for me. I want to see motor assist bicycles integrate in to the traffic fabric, along with other low speed vehicles that ultimately are much more efficient on surface streets up to 35mph and no bother at all to anyone on country roads either at that speed.

    So while I am riding my MAB I don't fear the man or his minions, nor do I mourn for freedoms lost. Getting cohesive legislation for LSV's, which MAB's are but a small part of, on a federal and state level is something that the world would benefit by happening in our lifetimes, but if it doesn't we at least tried to make a difference and have nothing to be ashamed of.

    In the meantime I figure that respect begets respect and do what I can to abide by the laws. Unfortunately because the laws vary so much state by state it is harder for some than others to do so. You could have a pretty nice MAB down there in OR well within the scooter regs. If you are trying to replace a motorcycle with a MAB you may be disappointed so just stick with the smaller motorcycles, OR is really inexpensive to register vehicles.
  8. upshifter

    upshifter Member

    Mabman, the politicians in Oregon get my contempt, not my respect. I respect the police officers, our soldiers, and other people that work to make the country worthwhile. I do abide by laws that follow the spirit and intent of our Constitution and it's Bill of Rights, all of those rights. I will say one thing though, we get the best politicians that money can buy.

    My son moved to Washington and bought a house there. He couldn't stand Oregon politics anymore, or the taxes. I was stationed at Whidbey Island NAS, not too far from Bellingham. A friend of mine on the base had a 1942 Ford convertible; it was a real beater with a leaky top. He would laugh and say, "It's still got one more trip to B-Ham left in it". Several of us would pile in, pitch dark and raining, we would head for Bellingham, that was 1952.

    You're right, we need to work on changing the laws. If people were truly interested in the environment and saving gasoline the place would be full of MABs and other small vehicles.
  9. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    There is a long thread started by Thatsdax, arguing that Federal Law supercedes state and local...there are numerous posts about the difference between a Moped and a motor-assisted bicycle.

    Large Filipino made an observation, in this thread, http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=119176&postcount=13

    To which I responded:

    In this thread,
    http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=172040&postcount=1 based on the arguments learned here, I advised my internet boycotting, non-television watching friend Greg how to buffalo them with paperwork, (paraphrased granted), but it is a "put the no-nothing legislator in the saddle, make them PROVE a MoPed is a bicycle."

    Its apples versus oranges, Greg's gumption ONLY covers his local precedence.

    To add to the Federal trumps Local argument, MoPeds DO NOT qualify for the upcoming in January 2009 BICYCLE COMMUTING REIMBURSEMENT, written into the Big Bailout Bill last October.


    Motor assisted bicycles DO qualify, under Section 211 (F)(i), as a bicycle improvement:

    Greg had the under 49 cc covered anyway, Large Filipino makes an observation I never heard before, but I really LIKE IT, for its creative possibilities.

    Nobody wants to be a martyr in this hobby, but even a lousy attorney, armed with some of these twisty turns could, could prove to a jury that

    (A): A MoPed is NOT a Motor assisted bicycle

    (B): Legislators who attempt to change that logical definition AND our on-going grassroots research, ARE TRAITORS IN THE OIL WARS.

    That cc limitation/and Large Filipino's observation is a bit of a stretch on the EPA rules, but still, if you start with Dax's "Fed Trumps Local", then the "Bailout Bill adds to the Fed trumps Local" argument, that is a good place to start.

    I have never had a problem with cops, in fact, roll right up to them, asking directions and giving them demos, telling them police departments are starting to use them too....

    But I would never accept a "Thats a MoPed" ticket, not without causing them a complicated court case with a jury to prove that BOGUSness.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  10. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    As to the lights argument, another customer is a plant supervisor, he's doing this for exercise (plus his truck only gets 12 mpg in the city), but leaves at 4:30 a.m. on a 12 mile ride, has a L.E.D. blinking vest, tail-lights and headlights.

    He's lit up like a Christmas tree, but ONLY because he rides at night.

    I don't ride at night, therefore lights, especially battery operated lights, in the words of Mr. Spock, are ILLOGICAL during the day.

    Now, if some enforcement person wanted to make a big deal out of it, I would throw the responsibility right back at the STATE, saying the crummy decrepit condition of highway shoulders "shake/rattle and roll" those crummy decrepit Made by Slaves in China light kits right off my frame.

    It's true, my area roads are so bad, unless I weld the light to my forehead, there is no way to make it reliable.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2008
  11. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    The Bent is loaded on the bike rack, headed to the brother's house, his son is on 12 day leave...about to be deployed in the Spring.

    But I scrounged up a copy of a Molly Ivins October 1990 article, re: Gulf War I, where we didn't learn to change anything, EXCEPT letting these legislators stifle the answers:

    Once you subpeona your legislators to traffic court, you could DEMAND to see the breakdown of their political contributions received.

    A yellow hi-lighter of oil/energy/insurance/legal industries would put the question in the minds of jurors "who does this jac*a*s really represent?"

    For inspiration, watch "Animal House", the double double secret probation hearings, where they march out whistling the "Colonel Bogey March".

    That's the spirit, legislators are low low low on the public opinion polls, so keep that in mind.

    Ho ho ho, and all that tollyrot !
  12. srdavo

    srdavo Active Member

    100_1950.JPG 100_1947.JPG

    Gives new meaning to headlights. :D

    Come on Oregon riders....Sound Off ! !
  13. mabman

    mabman Member

    Great input and insight Bama Guy. I am keeping a file of all the law issues that I read about and will at some point try and compile them.

    And Upshifter, I agree that politicians are 95% crooks but that is what we are saddled with. So know your enemy right?

    BO has the populace in a stranglehold, I even just saw a headline on MSN that "gas prices drop on Christmas eve", and have bullied the market thusly for years. Well everyone has their breaking point and generally the folks on this board have reached theirs sooner than most. Cause to quote a phrase from a book "We are mad as **** and not going to take it anymore". And rather than waiting for a solution are becoming the solution.

    Heck, even Santa rides a MAB!
  14. ZnsaneRyder

    ZnsaneRyder Member

    You folks mention, that over the years, more and more rules are being made and we lose more freedoms every year...........doesn't that logically make sense that there is an end goal "THEY" are working towards, which has been in the works for years...........and eventually we would lose ALL freedoms so "THEY" would have total control..........

    I edited this post and removed the weblink, because with a little research on youtube or google will fill in the blanks much easier when you seek for yourself.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  15. upshifter

    upshifter Member

    I'd like to know the federal law to which this dealer refers? I would use it in court if it became necessary.

    "Q- What is meant by street legal; and is this bike street legal?
    A- Street legal defines a vehicle that is legally allowed to travel on the streets. This motorized bicycle kit is street legal in all states. Some states require license and registration for a factory made moped, but a customized bicycle is considered pedal assist by federal law. "

  16. upshifter

    upshifter Member

    Znsaneryder, that's right. The goal is one world socialist government where everyone is herded around like sheep. Their motto is, "From those according to their ability; to those according to their need."

    When I was a kid we lived in a tent along the river bank. I didn't have much, but I was free. I would never trade my freedom for anything, and I mean anything.

    The control-freaks will promise you bread for your freedom, but deliver neither bread nor freedom. A pox on them.

    I saw a bumper sticker that says it all, "I'll keep my freedom, guns, and money; you can keep the "Change".
  17. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    That dealer is being devious with the facts, not mentioning the cc's and specifically, clicking around, he never gets specific about the engine.

    We all know what it looks like, but an impulse buyer would not.

    Californians have a second EPA hurdle to leap, and there is no mention of that in his "all 50 state" claim.
  18. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    bottom line seems to be -- ride that THING

    found an interesting THING here in Calif
    I am not much of a computer guy
    but -- online to a couple of traffic experts
    I asked in an e-mail if I could ride my 1.6 hp motor bike without drivers license
    both sent me back an e-mail stating -- yes I can ride
    after studing the state laws more
    I think that they are wrong
    but -- I carry with me their e-mails stating it's ok to ride that THING
    worth a try
    here there seems to be a slight grey area
    mostly because it is misunderstood
    even by the pooolice at times it seems

    I went and read some of those Fed laws a while back
    it would be nice to cut and paste the parts we like
    leaving out the rest --- lights, horn ect ect ect

    bottom line seems to be -- ride that THING
  19. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    The "federal law" typically referenced has been discussed at length here, and it is basically the Dept of Commerce administrative rules which define what constitutes a "motor assisted bicycle" for purposes of COMMERCE ONLY!

    That law has exactly zero bearing on the individual states motor vehicle codes, traffic regulations, equipment requirements/limitations, etc. Trying to claim that federal law says a motor assisted bicycle is thus and such, when the state code in the jurisdiction in which you are ticketed says anything different or more restrictive is a short and rocky road to fines and/or consfication.

    Vehicle definitions for purpose of operation in any state, county, or municipality are matters of statutory code where you are riding. Some states allow county/municipal restrictions/requirements in addition to state law, some don't.
  20. upshifter

    upshifter Member

    Well, if I see the law first, I'll hit the kill button and start pedaling like crazy hoping that they don't see the engine.