Let's change the law on motorized bikes

[Frankenstein]

No where does the state statutes mention that a motorcycle cannot have pedals. A motorcycle is defined as having a motor over over 50cc. Since most of the motors we are discussing are over 50cc, the state will consider them motorcycles.

My riding consists of ranch roads on private property and some public farm roads, 10 miles from the nearest town. I use it to check cattle and fence lines, that makes it farm use, no license required.

Well actually it implies that some motorcycles are equipped with pedals, at least in my state (if all motorcycles are motor driven cycles and all mopeds are motor driven cycles and so mopeds are motorcycles by comparison and motor driven cycles are both, and they are cycles with pedals by definition.)

In the posted legislation it does not require pedals to be considered a moped in Texas.

 

[Herman Klutz]

Here is an off topic pic, but still about Texas and motorcycles, a small town, Rowena Texas and the Fred Matchotka was a motorcycle dealer in 1910.

 

[JakeCardinal]

Well actually it implies that some motorcycles are equipped with pedals, at least in my state (if all motorcycles are motor driven cycles and all mopeds are motor driven cycles and so mopeds are motorcycles by comparison and motor driven cycles are both, and they are cycles with pedals by definition.)

In the posted legislation it does not require pedals to be considered a moped in Texas.

No, no and nein. And guess what, no, it ain't considered a moped all of a sudden. You're tossing up blatantly wrong info, anybody can see that. A bike like mine or potentially OP's bike would almost certainly not be considered a moped. Don't the $80 eBay kits produce more than 2HP?
"Moped" means a motor-driven cycle that cannot attain a speed in one mile of more than 30 miles per hour and the engine of which:

(A) cannot produce more than two-brake horsepower; and

(B) if an internal combustion engine, has a piston displacement of 50 cubic centimeters or less and connects to a power drive system that does not require the operator to shift gears.

And please please can you walk me through your logic when you say that since they didn't make a law for what I call motorized bicycles, that they're then illegal to operate without meeting the moped requirements.... Wat??? That's not how law and the absence of law works.

So I'm in "fantasy land"? That's cool with me because wherever you are it's a perfectly plausible scenario in which a hovercraft hurdles down the road---(wait for it) ---with impunity in the absence of a clearly defined hovercraft sub-section in transportation code...?

I literally can't even. Wait, no, I can.

8A 2 wheeled motorized vehicle with pedals is ubiquitously known as a god damn moped (motorized pedalcycle.) it has been defined regardless of how hard you try to say it isn't.
^^^^^^
U trollin right there. Not taking that bait but nice try.

And your right about the law bit, but it's just as much about interpreting the laws that were written and passed. I found it interesting that you mention the slaves being "undeniably free" after the civil war. They could legally vote, too! --But a black vote was only worth 3/5ths of a white guy's vote. Kinda weird... But yea u nailed it, that hundred year period after the civil war blacks were totally free to eat in segregated restaurants, sit on segregated buses, study in whatever segregated school they pleased. Yea writing that law sure made it crystal clear. No interpretation needed there, u know, because it was written down.

 

[GreenMantis]

I think just to be on the safe side, I'm going to put a safety triangle on the back of my bike, the universal pass for any "slow moving vehicle". You can drive a back hoe down the damn street if it has that triangle on the back. Even your hovercraft, I would think.

 

[Frankenstein]

No, no and nein. And guess what, no, it ain't considered a moped all of a sudden. You're tossing up blatantly wrong info, anybody can see that. A bike like mine or potentially OP's bike would almost certainly not be considered a moped. Don't the $80 eBay kits produce more than 2HP?

Well I see that point now and agree that these are not classifiable as a moped if you refuse to use stock 49 stickers and intend to indicate (or disclose the) a larger engine size.

Your argument is that these bikes are now beyond the moped category, the next step in the Texan hierarchy is a motor-driven cycle, which may not exceed 250cc, this one does not specify engine power rating but since you already agree that our bikes produce more than the limit on a moped then it's not an issue, at least you can create a vastly powerful motor with your 17-19cc over-the-limit engine.

"Moped" means a motor-driven cycle that cannot attain a speed in one mile of more than 30 miles per hour and the engine of which:

(A) cannot produce more than two-brake horsepower; and

(B) if an internal combustion engine, has a piston displacement of 50 cubic centimeters or less and connects to a power drive system that does not require the operator to shift gears.

And please please can you walk me through your logic when you say that since they didn't make a law for what I call motorized bicycles, that they're then illegal to operate without meeting the moped requirements.... Wat??? That's not how law and the absence of law works.

I already knew the first part, but you elevated your vehicle's status, it does not pertain to this argument any longer.

My logic is that you have a vehicle (a bicycle is considered a vehicle, not a motor vehicle) and you have stuck a motor on it, that makes it something other than a bicycle. The laws in existence are written well enough that they are easily interpreted for most people who can understand what laws can apply to what situation. So by process of elimination you and I have found a written category that can best describe the object in mind with all current laws considered.

You are subject to meeting the requirements of a motor-driven cycle if you use the standard $80 kit to motorize a bicycle in Texas and operate it on state roads. Was that enough walking?

So I'm in "fantasy land"? That's cool with me because wherever you are it's a perfectly plausible scenario in which a hovercraft hurdles down the road---(wait for it) ---with impunity in the absence of a clearly defined hovercraft sub-section in transportation code...?

Yes, in fantasy land you have the opertunity to explore every option, you have done so again by pointing out I'd be without impunity for driving a hovercraft around, the joke is that I wouldn't be that lucky because that's not how real life works. By your joke-logic which is actually quite sound then you shouldn't try to imply you can ride whatever kind of bike you want around town with some kind of magical impunity either.

I literally can't even. Wait, no, I can.

8A 2 wheeled motorized vehicle with pedals is ubiquitously known as a god damn moped (motorized pedalcycle.) it has been defined regardless of how hard you try to say it isn't.
^^^^^^
U trollin right there. Not taking that bait but nice try.

You are trying to quote a dictionary but can't take the time to spell everything out correctly? Hey, where I'm from that thing is called a moped, even Wikipedia can agree on that, not that Wikipedia is always correct but I'd bet if I looked up an article about some kind of plant or fish I'd be reading half decent information about the species I decided to look at. You catching the drift? A fish is a fish is a fish, looks like a duck walks like a duck...

You might not have taken the bait but you took the time to reply especially to that bit, while I was not trolling I can definitely say that just replying to a troll is taking troll bait, no matter how innocent. (insert trollface emoji here)

And your right about the law bit, but it's just as much about interpreting the laws that were written and passed. I found it interesting that you mention the slaves being "undeniably free" after the civil war. They could legally vote, too! --But a black vote was only worth 3/5ths of a white guy's vote. Kinda weird... But yea u nailed it, that hundred year period after the civil war blacks were totally free to eat in segregated restaurants, sit on segregated buses, study in whatever segregated school they pleased. Yea writing that law sure made it crystal clear. No interpretation needed there, u know, because it was written down.

They were totally free in the sense that they could pick their own preferred president (regardless of a bunch of racist dickheads trying to stand in the way of it at times) and ride on which bus they wanted, go out to any available restaurant they wanted to eat at, and crap in a bathroom that was owned by somebody who also owned them. They could work and earn money instead of being a prisoner of forced labor.

You shouldn't interpret old laws as pertaining to an argument of the currents, those laws were changed a dozen times over (because enough people saw what was wrong with the old ones) and so everyone is equal to each other as far as humanitarian rights are concerned.

It is not possible to interpret any law except the one regarding motor-driven cycles as being the most appropriate law without the addition of any new laws.

 

[GreenMantis]

Where I live, if it has pedals, it's a motorized bicycle, and as long as it doesn't go faster than 20 or 25mph, it's all good. Even those old style mopeds that had pedals are considered mb's. I think there is a 750 watt limit for electric bikes, too, but I can't remember for sure.
But if you have a triangle, you are a "slow moving vehicle", and that is another matter entirely. But if you take the cranks off your mb, then it's a moped if it's under 50cc's, and a motorcycle otherwise. That will get you a ticket for sure. I lost a nut, and one of my cranks came off, one night, and I just rode it home like that. I wonder what they would think of only one pedal? Is that half illegal? I had to keep my foot on it, since I have coaster brakes in the back.

You know which law I would really like to see amended, is that part about 50cc's. That makes no sense at all. They should have made it 52cc's, that way the engine could be one inch square, how perfectly simple is that? From an engineering and design aspect, anyway. 3.14 cubic inches works out to around 51.5cc's, we are only talking about one and a half cc's, and our engines have ridiculous measurements inside as a result.

 

[Herman Klutz]

https://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/other-types.php

Texas Mopeds

In Texas, a moped is defined as a motor-driven cycle that:

• CANNOT drive faster than 30 MPH in 1 mile.
• Has an engine that CANNOT generate more than 2 brake horsepower.
  • ADDITIONALLY, if has an internal combustion engine, the piston displacement must NOT exceed 50 cc, and the power drive system must NOT require the rider to shift gears.

If your vehicle exceeds any of the above criteria, then it’s automatically classified as a motorcycle.

If you aren’t sure whether your vehicle meets the criteria for a moped, try checking out the TX DPS’ list of certified mopeds for the specific make and model of your cycle.
TX Moped License & Registration

To legally ride a moped in Texas, you must:

• Be at least 15 years old.
• Register your moped by following the same process for registering a motorcycle in TX.
  • The registration fee for mopeds is $30, plus all other applicable county fees.
• Hold a Class M motorcycle license with a “P36” restriction; with this restriction you:
  • Must still meet the same requirements for a standard motorcycle license, EXCEPT for the motorcycle skills test—which you’re exempt from.
  • May ONLY ride mopeds—not motorcycles.

To apply for the P36 restriction, your moped must be on the TX DPS’ certified mopeds list. If it isn't, you'll need to:

• Verify your vehicle meets the above criteria for a moped.
• Take an Affidavit to Verify Requirements for Moped Classification (REV 2015) to the moped dealer or manufacturer where you bought it—have them complete this form.
• Submit the completed affidavit to your local driver license office.

Once you’ve registered your moped and have the appropriate license, remember that:

• Your moped will need to:
  • Be insured at all times.
  • Pass annual safety and emissions inspections.
• Wearing a helmet is ALWAYS required while operating your moped.

 

[Herman Klutz]

And directly from the Texas DPS site:
https://www.dps.texas.gov/msb/documents/vdrChart.pdf

"Moped" means a motor-driven cycle that cannot attain a speed in one mile of more than 30 miles per hour and the engine of which: (A) cannot produce more than two-brake horsepower; and (B) if an internal combustion engine, has a piston displacement of 50 cubic centimeters or less and connects to a power drive system that does not require the operator to shift gears. TRC 541.201(8) Note: any 2-wheeled vehicle that does not meet this definition is automatically classified as a motorcycle.

 

[Frankenstein]

https://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/other-types.php

While dmv.org is not completely reputable I would place it around the order of Wikipedia, usually a perfectly good source of info for general information purposes. But even by the standards of the actual code the current page is within the "accurate" category if compared to the actual legal code.

Where I live, if it has pedals, it's a motorized bicycle, and as long as it doesn't go faster than 20 or 25mph, it's all good. Even those old style mopeds that had pedals are considered mb's. I think there is a 750 watt limit for electric bikes, too, but I can't remember for sure.
But if you have a triangle, you are a "slow moving vehicle", and that is another matter entirely. But if you take the cranks off your mb, then it's a moped if it's under 50cc's, and a motorcycle otherwise. That will get you a ticket for sure. I lost a nut, and one of my cranks came off, one night, and I just rode it home like that. I wonder what they would think of only one pedal? Is that half illegal? I had to keep my foot on it, since I have coaster brakes in the back.

You know which law I would really like to see amended, is that part about 50cc's. That makes no sense at all. They should have made it 52cc's, that way the engine could be one inch square, how perfectly simple is that? From an engineering and design aspect, anyway. 3.14 cubic inches works out to around 51.5cc's, we are only talking about one and a half cc's, and our engines have ridiculous measurements inside as a result.

Sorry I forgot to mention that the orange triangle is also a very good idea in my last post when I was burning some weeds. First of all it's a super visable object, especially at night, secondly that is such a tame looking object and so attentionary that if a police officer were to happen to be behind you it would indicate such intentions so clearly that they would be more likely to pass on you. Basically if you're screaming you are a slow moving obstacle on the side of the road and that you should be passed the more that simple idea will work into any body's head, even policemen..

I did think at one point to make a lighted sign that brilliantly said 'PASS' in white with a blinking arrow in orange, red or green pointing to the left (indicating passing side) underneath. The only thing stopping me from an impulse build was lack of battery capacity at the time.

I figure a broken pedal would be cited much like a dead taillight, repair the issue and have an officer sign off on it later to clear the citation.

 

[Herman Klutz]

I knew about dmv.org, that is why I backed it up with Texas Department of Public Safety, the organization of our highway patrol and the Texas Rangers.