Let's change the law on motorized bikes

[Frankenstein]

I knew about dmv.org, that is why I backed it up with Texas Department of Public Safety, the organization of our highway patrol and the Texas Rangers.

Yes that's why I 'liked' the post earlier, point and sound.

 

[JakeCardinal]

-"They haven't defined a motorized bicycle..."
"You are right that they did not create a law specifically for a motorized bicycle..."

I think that's where we agree. But, I think you're wrong again because right there in black and white it goes on to say it means "motorcycle" which is what I was pointing to the other day. And since you now see the light and confess it cannot be considered a moped, this is what the Certified Mopeds list also states:
"Any two-wheeled vehicles that do not meet
these requirements must be registered as a motorcycle."

In Texas, a bicycle does not meet requirements of a motorcycle or vehicle requiring registration. Seems like your hitched to "motor-driven cycle." I was too, until I read on because I have a vested interest in the subject.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/msb/documents/vdrChart.pdf

I can't see any conflicts with the laws here and my bike setup.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.541.htm
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.551.htm

I think there are a couple hitches in your logic there, partner.
Does adding a few lights, reflectors, mirrors saddlebags, radio, fat tires, trailer hitch, and speedometer change is as much? What if I attach 4 cupholders, a speedometer, pedometer, sphygmomanometer, more saddlebags, Bodoum French-press 1 Qt capacity, a couple KC Daylighters and a Yosesmite Sam "BACK OFF" Mud-flap? Does it change it more or less so?
Nothing in the Bicycle code would prohibit mounting a complete, but non-functional, motor for aesthetics, would it?
What if I take my bike for a spin and only power it through pedaling? What statute does this conflict with?
It may not be propelled by human power exclusively but I propel it. It is propelled by perfectly proportioned perspiring calves and glutes that would make Adonis green with envy....

Yes, I had a bike. I changed things about it by adding motor but in Sec. 541.201 .(2) "Bicycle" still defines it without any contingencies, bruh.
It is not considered a motorcycle, off-road vehicle, motor-driven cycle, autocycle, rinsecycle, gentlecycle, thewatercycle, or "dick-bicycle" as defined exclusively by Nicki Minaj and Ariana Grande, or anything else you throw against the wall to see if it will stick except a BICYCLE.
Sec. 551.101. RIGHTS AND DUTIES. (a) A person operating a bicycle has the rights and duties applicable to a driver operating a vehicle under this subtitle, unless:
(1) a provision of this chapter alters a right or duty; or

(2) a right or duty applicable to a driver operating a vehicle cannot by its nature apply to a person operating a bicycle.

I understand it may be different where you are from but try sticking to Texas statutes, just for this thread.

Can you provide even one little citation for the category that through process-of-elimination "we" found and how "we" came to this decision? It is still unclear to me. But before you do, do you still feel this way about it?:

"It is not possible to interpret any law except the one regarding motor-driven cycles as being the most appropriate law without the addition of any new laws. "

 

[Herman Klutz]

It goes back to how the state interprets the code, the link to the DPS doesn't leave anyone with any other options unless they are will to take their chances in court. Will you win, probably some of the time, but not enough to jack with it. Go back to the pic I posted, that was taken at the beginning of the motorcycle era. They were originally bicycles with a motor added, and called motorcycles. If you go over 50 cc, you need a license, you need insurance or you could possibly face a few fines, or maybe even impoundment of the motorized bicycle.

One of my posts included an opinion by the Fort Worth police department, at first I thought they were guessing at the interpretation of the law. But after I read the part from DPS, I think that it was well researched before it was written, and I think they are probably correct. Will you be able to beat it in court, maybe sometimes, but the more cases that hit the courts, the more informed the judges and city attorney's will be. Then it is just a matter of time before everyone that tries to beat the tickets will find themselves going down on flames...

 

[JakeCardinal]

Years ago I spent quite a bit of time being active working on veterans legislation in Texas. Things like getting the Purple Heart license plates, disabled veterans property tax legislation and others. First going to the governor is not the method, you have to deal with the legislature representatives, they write the bills. You start with contacting yours, and you have to build a base of like minded people that will be contacting their representatives. It is a long tough row to hoe, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel until it is signed by the governor.

You have to know how the bill needs to be written with lots of details, and you have to convince them that it is necessary. Plan on spending many hours on the phone, in the local offices of your senator and house representative. But before you get started, you have to have your own organization of people that are willing and able to spend the hours to do this. I am not talking about a few dozen, I am talking about a few 100 that are willing to spend their money and time to try to get this legislation passed. The members of your group need to be spread across the state, so that it shows you have statewide support.

The odds of it happening will slim, you may spend a year or 2 getting any support, then another year or 2 getting a bill introduced to just see it die in committee. I've been there, done that, seen that and I am too damn old to try it again.

I bet you and I have very, very different political views. Nevertheless, I completely agree with the process here and likleyhood of it becoming law. It may be cynicism but if motorized bike laws were passed, I'd bet that bikes like mine wouldn't conform.

 

[JakeCardinal]

If you go over 50 cc, you need a license, you need insurance or you could possibly face a few fines...

How did you arrive at this understanding? You seem to be convinced so the literature you read regarding operators of bicycles with engines exceeding 50cc's requiring license and insurance is something I want to look at very carefully. Thanks in advance

 

[Herman Klutz]

State laws either are written to specifically allow certain things, or to disallow certain things. Based on the way the Texas law was written, when you pass the 50ccc threshold, you go into the motorcycle category. That was also expounded on by both the Fort Worth police department's link I posted and the Texas DPS link I posted. If not for those 2 links, I might blow it off and attempt to beat it in court, and might or might not win, but eventually I know I would lose and from that point on, anything I tried would be a losing proposition.

I am old, so a fine or even jail time is not much of deterrent to stop me from doing what I want to do. But I am also realistic, these toys are not safe on most of the streets, there are way too many people out there that should not be driving, and that includes people on bicycles with motors. Our town is around 125,000, we have had a few bicyclists killed in the last year in wrecks, and a few motorcyclists, and a lot more killed or badly hurt in vehicle wrecks. I would rather be in wreck in our car or pickup, than on a bicycle.

 

[KCvale]

I would rather be in wreck in our car or pickup, than on a bicycle.

Well sure! Wrecks on an MB really hurt!

 

[JakeCardinal]

State laws either are written to specifically allow certain things, or to disallow certain things. Based on the way the Texas law was written, when you pass the 50ccc threshold, you go into the motorcycle category. That was also expounded on by both the Fort Worth police department's link I posted and the Texas DPS link I posted. If not for those 2 links, I might blow it off and attempt to beat it in court, and might or might not win, but eventually I know I would lose and from that point on, anything I tried would be a losing proposition.

I am old, so a fine or even jail time is not much of deterrent to stop me from doing what I want to do. But I am also realistic, these toys are not safe on most of the streets, there are way too many people out there that should not be driving, and that includes people on bicycles with motors. Our town is around 125,000, we have had a few bicyclists killed in the last year in wrecks, and a few motorcyclists, and a lot more killed or badly hurt in vehicle wrecks. I would rather be in wreck in our car or pickup, than on a bicycle.

Can't do it, bub, because it doesn't exist. I've layed out why a bike exceeding 48cc is a bike unless it also meets the criteria of a moped. It's all been clearly described and permitted and restricted. All you gotta do is read and understand it instead of spouting off nonsense that you are unable to substantiate

 

[Old Busted Hotness]

A better title for this thread would be "Let's all beat our heads against a wall."

There's not a state legislator anywhere who's going to go to bat for a small minority of tinkerers, unless and until those tinkerers show up with a dump truck full of cash. Lawmakers only have so much time in session, and they're going to spend that time (productively, ha!) fighting for their pet causes (the ones who show up with cash or votes).

Call your state rep and tell him, "yeah, hi, I represent maybe 200 people across the state, some of which are old enough to vote, and we want to change a law that's been on the books since 1920 to allow us to ride what are essentially homemade motorcycles without licensing or insurance, and by the way none of us really have much money and probably half of us are actually mentally ill, but we'd really like to see this happen."

Good luck with that.

Call the same state rep and tell him you've got five million bucks for his re-election fund and you'll get his attention. Make it 20 million and spread it around, and you might get your bill to the floor for a vote. For 50 million, you could change any law that strikes your fancy.

 

[Frankenstein]

A better title for this thread would be "Let's all beat our heads against a wall."

There's not a state legislator anywhere who's going to go to bat for a small minority of tinkerers, unless and until those tinkerers show up with a dump truck full of cash. Lawmakers only have so much time in session, and they're going to spend that time (productively, ha!) fighting for their pet causes (the ones who show up with cash or votes).

Call your state rep and tell him, "yeah, hi, I represent maybe 200 people across the state, some of which are old enough to vote, and we want to change a law that's been on the books since 1920 to allow us to ride what are essentially homemade motorcycles without licensing or insurance, and by the way none of us really have much money and probably half of us are actually mentally ill, but we'd really like to see this happen."

Good luck with that.

Call the same state rep and tell him you've got five million bucks for his re-election fund and you'll get his attention. Make it 20 million and spread it around, and you might get your bill to the floor for a vote. For 50 million, you could change any law that strikes your fancy.

I couldn't really say certain things better, you're right, they don't care too much whatsoever, I'm surprised California made such strides as to at least making it really feasible to own one as a legitimate form of transportation.

I do not particularly agree that the use of these should be allowed without licensing, the skill of using ANY vehicle on the road is not universal, there are waaayyy too many people who completely lack any ability and the ability to learn, or even just the ability to adhear to the rules of the road for that matter. I've had slow people (like in the head slow) come up to me and ask if they needed a license to use these because they aren't able to get a driver's license.

Now you tell me, do you really want someone who is mentally challenged trying to drive a vehicle like that on the same roads as you? I mean sure a third of the people on road practically are mentally challenged if you just base it off their bad driving habits but do you actually want real ones too that can't even get past the numb brains at the dmv?

I wouldn't, and for their own safety it's probably better to avoid it. Not to mention there are people who outright abuse the rights of the road, like driving under the influence, why should I care if they f***ed up multiple times and can't operate machinery on the same road as me? I didn't f*** up anything so why do I need to be subject to undue risk?

Now plating these bikes, I understand the need to generate revenue, and I understand the need to prevent certain types of fraud along with the ability to quickly identify potential problems with a vehicle or person driving (lacking insurance- tied to the plate number, owner could have a suspended license which would show up on a plate check, identifying a stolen vehicle or one evading police capture, amongst other things) and unfortunately there's no real legitimate reason why these should be exempt, plating them just solves problems and streamlines the processes that exist to protect everyone on the road.

I noticed around here there are people who like to ride in small gangs on dirt bikes around town. The ones who are plated follow the rules, drive in a relatively safe manner, and don't create hazards for people. Then there are the ones without plates, they have a bad tendency to ride up one way roads in the wrong direction, swerve and squeeze through traffic and (I s**t you not) will ride as a pack or line up the wrong side of the road on purpose when it's a goddamn 2 way road! As in they could ride on the correct side not against traffic yet they still do it anyway! What's the difference between the people who are plated and the ones that aren't?

Attitude, and the ones with the unhealthy attitudes don't deserve a plate or license, nor do they probably even make an attempt to get one, they deserve to be hit with my truck. Since I'm not a hard core vigilante I leave that to the police to figure out (except once when I would have hit one on purpose driving up the wrong side of the street between me and parked vehicles, if only I had the room to safely do it!)

Yeah to me anything moving around on the roadway should be subject to regulations, even bicycles as it's just not safe to use them everywhere in any old way, plenty of stupid kids in this city riding those up the wrong way on roads with 35mph speed limits (no helmet) as if they are somehow magically protected by some invisible force field. Regulation works great once you've covered everything that needs covering, then you just need to worry about enforcement to make it mean anything, and I'm totally for that.