Making the leap from gas to electric

[kmarcetjr]

So I've had a 66cc motor mounted on my cruiser for about 1&1/2 months now, it's been a lot of trouble for me. Yes I can change out the problem parts, but that's more money for something that may or may not be more reliable.

How are electrics? More reliable in general than gas?
Here is what I am looking at:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SFJL4ZS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2V0U2CDI8OSTK
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FXH70D4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2LSEDCSG8PDKY

What is the opinion for these for a first e bike?

 

[Steve Best]

I bought a used Schwinn Izip.

Paid very little for it and enjoy it very much.
Search the "used" ads for what's available for a good price. You may have to buy batteries for it, an other $100.
Not high tech but a good place to learn.

 

[Madd Matt]

Kmarcetjr,
I could be wrong but it looks to me like you fell for the advertising that these gas bikes are cheap and easy to keep running. The answer to that is yes/no. Yes, if you are a bit of a mechanic. No, if you are new to these bikes.
The pure truth of the matter is a solid 80% reliable gas bike is going to run you at a minimum $1000.00 USD. Even then you will be required to spend most of your Saturdays doing tune-up and maintenance on your bike. Nothing wrong with this, just the nature of the beast.
An electric bike is the gold standard of reliability (for the most part; others out there will have an opinion about this statement). However, if I had a job I wanted to keep and I was relying on a motorized bike to get me there: the electric bike is the one that will not drop you in the grease with your boss at just the wrong time! That is why I ride an electric to work (well, I did until I retired).
Now to address what you are looking at on Amazon. A 500 Watt 36 volt system is about the minimum for getting around town on as long as you do not mind speeds between 15 and 22 MPH. (remember that rider weight, terrain traveled and riding style- whether you stay in the throttle or pedal a lot- are the determining factors to speed and distance traveled) (a thumb rule is- voltage is how fast you go and battery amp-hours is how far you go) Once these factors are set then weight, terrain and style become the factors that affect speed and distance.
I would suggest you go back to school (so to speak) before you spend any money and then wind up with a bike you do not like.
A good place to start is EbikeSchool.com and electricbike.com----spend a couple of weeks looking over the information they have and then you will be better informed about which configuration of ebike will do what you want to do. I just hate to see you spend 4 or 5 hundred dollars and still not get what you want.
In all truthfulness, in order to put together a bike that will do 30 MPH and travel 30 miles with a 210LB rider across terrain that is 1/2 flat and 1/2 hills(fairly steep) and this same rider likes to be in the throttle 3/4 of the time; this bike will run you from $2500.00 to $3500.00 USD. (this quote is going to raise some hackles out there but so be it.)
So it boils down to this-----what do you want this bike to do? & how much of a budget do you have?
Do your schooling first, then look at what others have done and how they like the results. If you want to see what you can purchase pre-made starting for around $5000.00 USD look at these sites;
1) www.vintageelctricbikes.com (this one is my favorite for the money)
2)www.juicer.bike
3)www.italjet.com (pure Italian sexy)
4)www.meijsmotorman.com
5)www.otocycles.com

Anyways, this is enough to get you started. At least you will be able to make an informed decision, even if you still decide to go with the Amazon kits. Give me a holler if I can help with information. I will post some pics in a few days of the bike I wound up building (that 30MPH for 30 Miles described above)
Later & Good Luck,
Madd Matt

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

In all truthfulness, in order to put together a bike that will do 30 MPH and travel 30 miles with a 210LB rider across terrain that is 1/2 flat and 1/2 hills(fairly steep) and this same rider likes to be in the throttle 3/4 of the time; this bike will run you from $2500.00 to $3500.00 USD. (this quote is going to raise some hackles out there but so be it.)
So it boils down to this-----what do you want this bike to do? & how much of a budget do you have?
Do your schooling first, then look at what others have done and how they like the results. If you want to see what you can purchase pre-made starting for around $5000.00 USD look at these sites;
1) www.vintagelectricbikes.com (this one is my favorite for the money)
2)www.juicer.bike
3)www.italjet.com (pure Italian sexy)
4)www.meijsmotorman.com
5)www.otocycles.com

Anyways, this is enough to get you started. At least you will be able to make an informed decision, even if you still decide to go with the Amazon kits. Give me a holler if I can help with information. I will post some pics in a few days of the bike I wound up building (that 30MPH for 30 Miles described above)
Later & Good Luck,
Madd Matt

$2500? lol and vintagelectricbikes.com for like $5000? just shows you are out of touch.

Check out Rad Power Bikes for $1500 shipped for a 25 mph and 30 mile ebike.

Throttle? I would never buy or build an ebike that didn't have 5 speed PAS and a throttle.

 

[kmarcetjr]

Kmarcetjr,
I could be wrong but it looks to me like you fell for the advertising that these gas bikes are cheap and easy to keep running. The answer to that is yes/no. Yes, if you are a bit of a mechanic. No, if you are new to these bikes.
The pure truth of the matter is a solid 80% reliable gas bike is going to run you at a minimum $1000.00 USD. Even then you will be required to spend most of your Saturdays doing tune-up and maintenance on your bike. Nothing wrong with this, just the nature of the beast.
An electric bike is the gold standard of reliability (for the most part; others out there will have an opinion about this statement). However, if I had a job I wanted to keep and I was relying on a motorized bike to get me there: the electric bike is the one that will not drop you in the grease with your boss at just the wrong time! That is why I ride an electric to work (well, I did until I retired).
Now to address what you are looking at on Amazon. A 500 Watt 36 volt system is about the minimum for getting around town on as long as you do not mind speeds between 15 and 22 MPH. (remember that rider weight, terrain traveled and riding style- whether you stay in the throttle or pedal a lot- are the determining factors to speed and distance traveled) (a thumb rule is- voltage is how fast you go and battery amp-hours is how far you go) Once these factors are set then weight, terrain and style become the factors that affect speed and distance.
I would suggest you go back to school (so to speak) before you spend any money and then wind up with a bike you do not like.
A good place to start is EbikeSchool.com and electricbike.com----spend a couple of weeks looking over the information they have and then you will be better informed about which configuration of ebike will do what you want to do. I just hate to see you spend 4 or 5 hundred dollars and still not get what you want.
In all truthfulness, in order to put together a bike that will do 30 MPH and travel 30 miles with a 210LB rider across terrain that is 1/2 flat and 1/2 hills(fairly steep) and this same rider likes to be in the throttle 3/4 of the time; this bike will run you from $2500.00 to $3500.00 USD. (this quote is going to raise some hackles out there but so be it.)
So it boils down to this-----what do you want this bike to do? & how much of a budget do you have?
Do your schooling first, then look at what others have done and how they like the results. If you want to see what you can purchase pre-made starting for around $5000.00 USD look at these sites;
1) www.vintageelctricbikes.com (this one is my favorite for the money)
2)www.juicer.bike
3)www.italjet.com (pure Italian sexy)
4)www.meijsmotorman.com
5)www.otocycles.com

Anyways, this is enough to get you started. At least you will be able to make an informed decision, even if you still decide to go with the Amazon kits. Give me a holler if I can help with information. I will post some pics in a few days of the bike I wound up building (that 30MPH for 30 Miles described above)
Later & Good Luck,
Madd Matt

Well yes I guess I did buy into the myth that gas bikes are cheap and reliable, cheap yes, reliable, not so much.
Well I kind of figured that electric are the gold standard, less moving parts=more reliability. I had been using my gas bike for to and from work, not far, 3 miles round trip, and short errand around town, not more than 5 miles each way. I own car, but it's old and I am trying to use a bike for most things. I live in a small town every place I need to go is say not more than 5 or 6 miles from home, so 12 miles round trip tops.
An e bike is appealing to me for the reason that they are more reliable, I don't want to have to wrench on it twice a week to keep it on the road. I'm ok with pedaling some so a 500 watt 26 volt system is probably ok for me. Where I live is very flat, like a slice of cheese laying on a table. Road surfaces, are ok, not great but not horrible, my main obstacle is wind and rain, it's breezy here often, and in the summer we have torrential downpours that are very unpredictable. I'm not a heavy weight by any means, but I'm not a feather weight either.
Budget? As inexpensive as possible without cutting into reliability. But on the serious side $600 or under for my first electric, coincidentally this is about how much I put into the gas bike.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Madd Matt]

Kmarcetjr,
You are more than welcome.
motorbicycleracing,
I did not claim to have the be-all end-all about information on e-bikes but I am not "out of touch" as you say. I built my own e-bike this past winter and it did take the money I spoke about to purchase quality and reliable parts for a bike that will stay on the road for a minimum of 5 years and haul my 6 foot 2 inch, 210 lb. frame up and down hills at a top speed of 34 miles per hour and a range of 45 miles (if I am conservative). Sure if you cut corners it can be done for less. You have to keep in mind that you get what you pay for and personally I would rather "step up to the plate" and get something that will last vs getting something on the cheap that will need to be replaced too soon.
But hey that's OK: some people like to do it on the cheap. I went that way at first and suffered for it. So I learned from it and will not suggest a new person to go down that path.
Take the gasbike in question as an example. Kmarcetjr went on the cheap and found that the product did not perform unless more money was put into it. That is why he will need to do the research first to determine what he expects from the bike vs how much money he is willing to put into it.
So do us all a favor and be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Thanks and Regards,
Madd Matt

 

[Madd Matt]

Hey SoCal,
I sure hope you and I are not crossways with each other. I did have a good look at the RadBike you mentioned and it looks to be an OK bike for how it is put together. However from what I see in the description it suffers from advertising oversell. Lets look at each claim one at a time.
1) the motor,
a 750 watt . I would consider this to be one step above the minimum required for a commuter (performance wise) I was referring to a 1 KW motor in my previous post, so this is a downgrade for comparison purposes.
2) the controller,
--15 amp continuous with 20 amp peak. this is a little anemic. In my build I used a programmable controller factory set to provide 60 amp peak.
3) the BMS,
- 30 amp continuous. Again a downgrade from what I was describing with 40 amp continuous and 80 amp peak
4) the biggie, the battery,
--RadBike offers a good Panasonic Li-Ion that is good for almost 800 charges but only 11.6 amp-hour. This is OK for short commutes but don't go far, you'll be pedaling home.
--I had Em3EV build a battery pack rated for 1200 charges at 26.6 amp-hours @50 volts (so 2&1/2 times the battery capacity)
5) Travel distance (Mfg. claimed that is),
...Now we get into Rider style, terrain difficulties, headwinds, rider weight, etc., etc. RadBike claims 20 to 40 miles depending on mode....don't we wish??!!! Now reality rears its ugly head. I have found the best way to make realistic comparisons is to look at how many watt-hours of battery capacity it takes to go one mile. (based on personal observation and information used from electricbike.com - article: Watt Hours- Calculating) The Mfg. will use the absolute minimum/most miserly number they can to show their product will go farther than anyone else's bike! A number anywhere from 15 to 25 watt-hours per mile. My real world observation (or opinion--your choice) is anywhere from 35 to 60 watt-hours per mile. Using a middle ground number of (15 to 60 divided by 2 ) 38.5 watt-hours per mile. Now we have a yardstick we can use to measure an e-bikes actual travel distance.
a} RadBike--48 volts x 11.6 amp-hours = 556.8 watt-hours capacity. divided by 38.5 w-h/mile gives us 14.5 miles of travel in real world conditions. Keep in mind the rider style, road conditions, weather, etc. that affects this number.
b} My build--50 volts x 26.6 amp-hours = 1330 watt-hours capacity. divided by 38.5 w-h/mile gives us 34.5 miles of travel in real world conditions.
6) the charger,
--RadBike is a simple Lithium charger. Battery goes down the charger brings it back to 100% Not the most optimum for extended battery life. ( see Grin Technologies- Satiator charger for tech. numbers)
--My Satiator will almost double the battery life (charge cycles).
--So how long will the battery last? (assume 5 charges per week)
a] RadBike- 800 charges divided by 5 = 160 weeks divided by 52 weeks/year =3 years and 3 weeks and 4.9 days ( I'm being facetious here )
b] Matt's build--1200 charges x 1.5 (using life extending charger) =1800 charges divided by 5 = 360 divided by 52 = 6 years & 47 weeks and almost 5 days.
Now I know these numbers are predictions and not set in concrete but the point is my bike/battery combo will still be on the road after the RadBike has died twice.

I could go on with other points of comparison but I feel like I am beating a dead horse now.
My point is this,,,do your homework and not just accept what you see advertised. Yes, you may end up spending more money up front but the odds are over the lifespan of the bike you are going to come out spending less. Step up to the plate and pay for what you get. You will spend less over time and you will not CRINGE every time you have to get on your bike. If fact , if the bike does what you expect it to do EVERY time, it is less expensive to overspend than to underspend. (counter intuitive to say the least)
What do you think SoCal?
I welcome everyone to join in on this line of discussion Please.
Thanks and Regards,
Madd Matt

 

[bakaneko]

To be frank, there is no discussion. It is a matter of circumstance and perspectives. I understand many of you have gobs of money and time to devote to this hobby. But, that is not the case for others and certainly their circumstance and requirements should not harbor disdain or ridicule from a few here on the forums.

I had a 48V 1kW on a 12ah SLA array (50lb) as my first motorized bicycle. I loved that thing before I sold it, and it was a bare bones and as low as you can go kit (for ebike) and it was great to ride around as a motor assist. The better way to assist someone is to ask for their price range and then try to determine the best option for them listing out the benefits and disadvantages.

For example, this OP price range is 400-600 so yes a $5k suggestion or even a $1.5k suggestion is probably NOT helpful at all. His requirements are pretty simple and the topography of his area (flat) can afford a simple, cheap build.

 

[kmarcetjr]

For example, this OP price range is 400-600 so yes a $5k suggestion or even a $1.5k suggestion is probably NOT helpful at all. His requirements are pretty simple and the topography of his area (flat) can afford a simple, cheap build.

Thnak you, I wa beginning to think for my needs I was going to need to spend a lot more money.

I just place and order, from a seller on amazon for a 48 volt 1000 watt kit, I've found a seller, not on amazon that sells a 48 volt 11.6 ah rear rack battery for around $220, with 18650 cells.

 

[bakaneko]

Thnak you, I wa beginning to think for my needs I was going to need to spend a lot more money.

I just place and order, from a seller on amazon for a 48 volt 1000 watt kit, I've found a seller, not on amazon that sells a 48 volt 11.6 ah rear rack battery for around $220, with 18650 cells.

yes, that setup will give you a lot of fun and be great for your 12 mile trips. just help it get up to speed to extend battery life and on hills. you can also buy a better controller as an upgrade later if you want. and, you should be able to buy add another battery later and put them in parallel for 22 aH, but I am not certain if you need a bms or whatnot for making parallel lipo packs. but, starting out on 12 aH is fine.