Motoredbiking and the price of gas

[kerf]

I too left the rat race, about eight years ago, when the horse I had been riding for 29 years fell out from under me. Just started my own business, sans the commute, so I do understand your issues. But for each of us "has beens" there are a thousand still struggling with the daily grind. They are the country's backbone and I don't wish any additional burden upon them. I would like to see more bike paths, for my own enjoyment and maybe we will. There are several long bike trails in Alabama, made from abandon rail beds, some crossing state lines, so there is really nothing stopping that now. We can have bikes and cars, the country is certainly big enough for both.

 

[grndslm]

I love my bike too but $10 gasoline is an insane statement. If you want to live in a third world country, get on a plane and go but don’t mess up my world. We must stop the fools in Washington and tell them to DRILL IN ANWR and to GET THE CORN OUT OF MY GAS TANK...

AMEN!!

Global Warming is the greatest Marxist lie ever told, increasing CO2 levels aren’t the cause of temperature increases, it’s the result. Ice core samples indicate that the correlation between CO2 and temperature is the exact opposite of the GW theory. The samples show increasing levels of CO2 follow temperature increases, it doesn’t precede it. Then what is the cause, go outside and look up at that big yellow thing, it has been the cause since this world has been here. Just last night, on the news, there was a story about the severity of this winter and that we are headed for GLOBAL COOLING unless sunspot activity increases.

I disagree... According to a Scientist on the National Geographic Channel or something of that sort, we are supposed to be in the cooling phase of the CO2 cycle. The data does show it increasing offbeat because of humans. Global warming is real...

I’ll end my little rant with the fact that the USA is 25% of the world economy and our country runs on oil. Outrageous energy prices will kill our economy and possibility result in world recession or even depression. I’ve lived through recession and it’s miserable. I've not been through a depression but my parents, God rest their souls, lived through the great depression and told me, “Son, you don’t want to go there”.

Because global warming is real, and we could prolly all agree we will always need oil but will one day run out... means Large is half right; we need more people on bikes, motors or not. America really does need change in terms of balance of consumption and conservation, or we likely will end up in a depression that no one wants.

Motored bikes is certainly a trend that will increase globally and help us all... All we need to do is ride!! ... And get the word out!! ... And then ride some more!!

 

[kerf]

grndslm,

The Global Warming advocates describe the effects as rising temperatures, falling temperatures, floods and drought. It seems to me that they've hedged their bet by claiming every possible outcome as a GW effect. Earth has been through untold warming periods followed by untold cooling periods, most of which predate humanity, let alone the Industrial Revolution. You can believe this anti-capitalist tripe if you wish but one day you'll say, "&%$@ I wish I'd listen to kerf".

 

[grndslm]

Here's where I stand. I believe the earth has had phases in its temperature, warming and cooling for an equal period. I believe there is a correlation between CO2 & temp. I don't know about one always causing the other to rise... but I think enough CO2 from the US & developing countries would alter the temperature for one reason or another.

As I said, according to scientists we *should* be in a cooling phase now... If we are really in a cooling phase with an increase in CO2, I'm simply dumbfounded by all the research I've recently come across. And it doesn't explain why my city almost broke the highest temp records for a number of days last year.

I have this suspicion that temps will just become more extreme with colder winters and warmer summers. One thing's for sure tho, global cooling is scarier than global warming.

 

[mickey]

One thing's for sure tho, global cooling is scarier than global warming.

Word. I annoy some of my friends by reminding them that I'm in favor of global warming. Warm climate = prosperity and plenty, Cold climate = dearth and pestilence. Its historical I tell them: When we get warmer than the Medieval Warm period, much less the Roman Optimum, call me.

I hate cold.

 

[SirJakesus]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that oil is a completely fungible resource. Simply put, if we don't use it, China or India will. That isn't to say I'm against conservation and possibly teaching the oil companies a lesson.

I say we should have no reservations about using oil. It's a great resource and you can make just about anything out of it. I do however think its a shameful waste to just burn it like we do at an alarming rate.

And if global warming is real... why did Baghdad see the first snowfall in all of recorded history THIS YEAR. The global warming carp is just another way to tax us more and sell us more junk we don't need. Want to help the planet? Have only one child and plant some trees.

 

[grndslm]

I say we should have no reservations about using oil. It's a great resource and you can make just about anything out of it. I do however think its a shameful waste to just burn it like we do at an alarming rate.

Read all that again & explain how you can say "we should have no reservations about using oil." I'm sure you're saying this in response to the whole GW topic, but the alarming rate at which oil is depleting is what worries me most. With other quickly booming countries and newer technologies developing daily... it's hard to imagine that we, as a planet, could keep using oil at its currently increasing rate. The amount of oil is finite, and I firmly believe I'll be around to see the end of it. Sure we'll prolly have enough bikes & wind/solar power to provide personal transportation & energy... but what happens to all the diesel trucks, the jets with high octane gas, heating oils, the manufacturers with energy hungry machines, plastics, & everything else that's derived from petroleum??? That's when the dogsheet hits the fan. When we can't transport food... life is gonna have to return to complete self-sustainability (even moreso than Alaskavan), which is hard to imagine. But, of course, things'll work out one way or another for us, and Mother Earth will be here for a few more billion at least.

Want to help the planet? Have only one child and plant some trees.

I love trees... I hate how they can't convert carbon monoxide into oxygen, tho. Bummer!

 

[mickey]

The amount of oil is finite, and I firmly believe I'll be around to see the end of it.

Well, it is finite in the cosmic sense but there is plenty for the next few centuries. Marketable energy is at the heart of the issue. On the supply side, there are carbon based synfuel alternatives that are economically viable at the equivalent of $60 a barrel oil. Supply and demand indicate an undistorted market price of about $80 a barrel right now. (the $100+ we are seeing now is a speculative bubble) The problem is that the market doesn't believe that oil will stay this high over the payback period required to gear up synfuel production as they would if they were worried about oil reserves.

That said, it is a waste to burn hydrocarbons for electrical generation, carbons that we need for liquid fuels, but that will take care of its self, eventually.

I doubt that any of us will live to see the end of the carbon age. IMHO, all the studies in the popular press (its not news if its not sensationalized in some way) don't mean much against the investments of those whose livelihood relies on the production of energy. Watch synfuel investment. When you see the energy companies investing the tens of billions required for large-scale coal-gasification or shale/tar sands refining, you'll know that the market is responding. (as an aside, Canada is upping their alternative carbon refining. Something to watch)

Trust the invisible hand, says I. Where there's money to be made, there's a solution.

 

[kerf]

mickey,
Well stated and I agree with everything you said. Science is supposed to be self correcting and I know that politics and ego have always inserted itself into the "empirical process". Today I believe we've entered a hyper-political period that is having more impact on the process than ever, science is taking a back seat to the pursuit of power, very dangerous.

I was watching "The Universe" on the History channel the other night and they stated as fact how something occurred moments after the Big Bang. There is no way of knowing if our physical laws even existed at that moment, so how can it be stated as fact. It could be put forth as an hypothesis or even theory but not fact. It just makes me worry about who's pulling the strings now.

My God, I sounding like one of the tin hat crowd.

 

[grndslm]

Well, it is finite in the cosmic sense but there is plenty for the next few centuries.

Source, please?

Marketable energy is at the heart of the issue.

Unless, of course, the marketable energy that makes up 90% of the world's source is depleted in the late process of finding alternative energies. Without oil or alternatives, ther prolly won't be a market to worry about.

The problem is that the market doesn't believe that oil will stay this high over the payback period required to gear up synfuel production as they would if they were worried about oil reserves.

From Peak Oil on Wikipedia: "Optimistic estimations of peak production forecast a peak will happen in the 2020s or 2030s and assume major investments in alternatives will occur before a crisis. These models show the price of oil at first escalating and then retreating as other types of fuel and energy sources are used." I think I'm gonna say, if peak oil isn't found under Bush, it'll be found under the first term of the new president. Why else would gas prices be on the road to $4/gallon in the states??

That said, it is a waste to burn hydrocarbons for electrical generation, carbons that we need for liquid fuels, but that will take care of its self, eventually.

I'm 100% with you on this one.

Watch synfuel investment. When you see the energy companies investing the tens of billions required for large-scale coal-gasification or shale/tar sands refining, you'll know that the market is responding. (as an aside, Canada is upping their alternative carbon refining. Something to watch)

All that conversion & refining takes energy, tho... hauling the coal somewhere else with diesel, and even if there were solar panels... none of those were made without petrol.