My New Honda Schwinn Build

[Irish John]

John, not sure where you mean to put lock nuts? The tapped holes in the aluminum slide end mounts of course are not drilled through as they come out flat against the steel tray.

I drilled through when I put in the wider spaced bolt holes as I don't have any bottom taps. I used lock washers and washers under the bolt head against the clamp portion of the 2" exhaust pipe clamp . Would have loved to have something else that the aluminum block to hold the grade 8 bolt.

BTW, My NorthStar is a four stroke. 8O) =

Jim

Yeah Jim, I meant the side bolts that hold the engine mounting tray on. They need nylock nuts on the end but there's seldom room for a washer cos the hole is too close to the roof of the aluminium. The 4 studs could be redrilled to go through and have either nuts on the end or you can retap the existing to 8mm but I have been using 6mm Aussie 12.9 hardness steel studs with loctite threadlock. I notice the beijing stadium stayed upright last night thanks to our good grade iron ore.

 

[Irish John]

Day 4 on the Fosscati FG4 Indian Pacific

Today I tried to do a bit more on my new build. I had taken the Shimano Nexus 7 hub off to mount the rear sprocket and that all went OK except putting the gear hub and wheel back on is not easy. There's a little casette joint fixing ring that is nearly impossible to get to click back in place so I could remount the wheel. A seach of the web told me that it was a well known impossible task peculiar only to Shimano nexus gear hubs.

I spent some time trying to mend 2 leaking petrol tanks by soldering. One is successful (but for how long?) and the other still leaks at one of the rear threaded posts. I still have a little old HT tank from 2004 that is good because it was made before the deliberate quality fade got so bad. The only kit parts I'm using in this build is a tank, a mounting tray which will have to be seriously adapted, two cables, the hand grips but not kill switch, and 2 levers.
I broke 3 more brand new pet cocks today and 2 were by hand tightening only. That brings the total number of broken pet cocks to 8 and in case any sinophile apologist want to tell me that I'm expecting too much just take look at the photos below and look at the crystaline nature of the alloy or steel and you can see it's just abject junk.
I'll have to get some Japanese ones from the trail bike shop but don't know if they will fit.
I'm having problems with the Grubee engine tray. The steel tubing on the Schwinn is too small for the clamp brackets to be tightened onto the 6mm studs and I will try mounting some 6mm thick 2 ply rubber (which I have left over from the rubber sprocket clamps I made last week) between the aluminium tray blocks and the tube and using that to tighten the mild steel brackets to. The studs are 12.9 very high tensile steel but they are only 6mm and if I tighten too hard it puts serious stress on the studs and they will fracture under engine load and vibration or worse strip straight out of the aluminium threads. I'm beginning to think I need to design my own Grubee tray correcting all the Grubee stuff-ups and get it fabricated in bulk.
It would not have any threaded aluminium needless to say.
I seriously believe that unless the components in these kits improves the only thing I'll be buying in future is the HS motor. The rest of the kit has very little value and I find it sad that the 4-stroke kit has to replicate the HT poor quality when it's selling point was reliability over the 2-strokes.
Anyway I've still got a way to go and it seems to be problems all the way. The throttle problem with the Honda motor worries me and I might try and use an HS carb but the recent Aussie Grubee kit came with an HS engine that has the usual spring loaded throttle but has a cable controlled choke. That's not quality fade that's a deliberate attempt by someone to sabotage my peace of mind. Imagine what was going on in the brain that thought that an extra lever on the handlebars would be just the ticket. All they had to do was just rip off the Honda like they were doing but oh no, we must make the motor 25mm higher with an extra steel plate and a cable throttle so it won't fit in any bicycle ever made anywhere!
Not a great day today on the bicycle front. I'll go and watch the Olympics and wait for something to go wrong.

 

[jimraysr]

Leaking tanks

John, My 1970s Yamaha trail bike tank rusted out from 22 years of storage. I have not repaired it, but do know of a method it can be done.

Sears carried an epoxy kit for both cars and motorcycles a few years ago. Not sure they still do, but guessing somebody does.

Getting rid of the internal rust (guessing that isn't you problem) is a problem in repaining old tanks. Read about one fellow that put pea gravel in the tank and shook it till it loosed all the old rust. Then there was a cleaner in the kit and finally epoxy that sealed all the leaks. Seems like it would be a good preventive for a new tank as we know they are not galvanized and some have complained of rust in a new tank. We have 30 to 40 degree F (17 -22 degrees C) temperature swings. So condensation corrosion is a problem even though we only get 7 inches of rain a year. I need to consider treating my tank as well as making sure I keep fuel stabilizer in the tank as well. The major thing with new gas is make sure I run the carb dry when ever the engine won't be run for a few days.

A Honda mechanic I know claims that modern gas will go stale in less than 30 days? I keep Stable in my 5 gallon safety cans and in the motor home tank. Problems, problems, always a new one. 8O) =

Jim

 

[Irish John]

Day 5 on the Indian Pacific

Day % was not great on my bike build cos it was cold in the workshop. I'm still playing around with getting the engine mounts just right and have inserted hard 6mm rubber pad between the engine tray and the front tube and a doubled over inner tube from a truck at the back. That gives the mounting brackets some purchase that they otherwise wouldn't have had cos the frame tubes are so skinny.
Looking at the Schwinn D7 Cruiser rear rack with it's pointed tail end I see that there isn't a rear light I have ever seen that would fit this beastof a rack. has anyone encountered a pointed end on a rear rack with a bolt hole about 2" in from the point?
I've also discovered that the curved top tube on the Schwinn cruisers put a lot of uneven pressure on the tank and that might be why they keep springing leaks from the threaded post under the tank. I will be packing out the top tube to get a more level tank mounting position so the tank is supported along its full length. I'll use more of the rubber pads but if I go too high the posts won't reach down far enough to get the fixing brackets on.
My leaking tank fixing idea using soft solder hasn't worked well and I am back to where I started. I wish there were still blacksmiths about who could fix this.
Am now trying to file down an engine key to fit the motor & clutch. This build is too hard and I'm begining to regret starting it. I might have over-reached myself again.
Can anyone tell me the exact key width of the Honda shaft? Is it 3/16" or 5/16"?

 

[MasterLink]

i have never had my tank or tanks leak there ,,my thoughts are you could be over tighting the tank they dont need to be to tight if it moves around a bit
i just make it a bit tighter i use some rubber stuff that gos around airconditioners copper tubbing and set it on the top tube of the bike
and the petcock is junk and it doesn't let gas out very fast iam goin to get the barb again for may new build from the hardware store

and the key i just filed mine on a slight angle
and then used a hammer ontill i could get the bolt on flush mine has a tapper on it now that was the clutch key iam talking about i can see my key hanging out and the bolt that holds the clutch together needs to set flush ....the key i filed on a angle god only know what size it is...
but it only gos in one way and even with the key installed the clutch didn't seem to work the way i thought ...but it works fine some kinda magic goin on in there hahaha i hope it clears my post up i had a call and pushed post and forgot to check my post

 

[Irish John]

i have never had my tank or tanks leak there ,,my thoughts are you could be over tighting the tank they dont neet to be to tight if it moves around a bit i just make it a bit tighter and the petcock is junk and dont let gas out very fast iam goin to get the barb again for may new tank from the hardware store
and the key i just filed mine on a slight angle then taped in with a hammer ontill i could get the bolt on flush mine has a tapper on it now

Thanks MasterLink, I only tighten the tanks enough to stop it moving around. Can you explain the bit about your engine key a bit better. You filedit, tapped it with a hammer - tapped it in or tapped it until it tapered? I don't understand the bit about the bolt on flush. The bolt goes in the end of the shaft to hold the gear and cltch bell on. Isn't that what you mean?
Do you know the exact keyway size? 3/16 or 5/16"? Or what?

 

[jimraysr]

John, I will just post a little as I have a meeting shortly.

First, take three deep breaths and let them out slowly.

Being a Irishman myself I was born with more than my share of frustration and perfectionism. I do have around 30 years on you and 26 without drinking so have wound down quite a bit. 8O) =

I have four clutches, two with the proper keyway and two with the narrow one.

I have the measurements in 1/1000" and 100/ cm, but that isn't needed here.

The clutsh key slot should be 4.6mm or .18"

The narrow clutch slots are 4.3mm or .16'

The key that fits the Honda shaft and the bell bushing is 4.5mm or .18"

The bell housing bushing has a 4.5mm or .17" width.

My cheap ($6 US) Harbor Freight Carbon Fiber Digital caliper gave the above figures.

I have a more precise set of figures from a Stainless digital caliper, but they only confirm the general truth of the above.

From looking at your work, I think of you as a master builder. I wasn't looking for the show piece that you produce, but it did take me four months to get it together. Final shock came Saturday when I took the bike off the hoist for the first time. I had tested it etc., but had not put the OEM kickstand down with the engine mounted. DA, top heavy. Now I have to get a center stand for the Schwinn. ) Always something else.

Have decided to maybe do a little side business on 4 stroke kits. Seem like I need to share my experience with others who want to join the clan.

Jim.

 

[Gary P]

Dad bought my black phantom in 51 or 52, I think. Price was $84.95 from a local furniture store (how about that?) Jared Bros. Furniture on Commercial Street. Dad made $54.00 a week then. By using the bike to ride to school and throwing papers from it, I paid him back in non use bus fare in two years.

Gary P.
Springfield Mo.

John, the bike looks like my old Schwinn Black Phantom from 1950+ /- Of course it had a tank wt. a horn in it and a tail light wt. a brake light, but the frame gave me a start. I loved it. I could ride all the way to school on my J C Higgins bike and never touch the handle bars. Not so with the Schwinn, top heavy. Of course they didn't have springer forks then, it had the Schwinn "Knee Action" front fork. Think dad paid $115 US for it. Lots of money in the 50's

Regarding the outside bracket. I thought the same thing. It doesn't seem to really serve a purpose except to space the sprocket out. My chain slaps the wheel strut some times and removing the bracket would allow me to move the engine towards center. As you know that would be a problem for me as my mounting holes are fixed on the bracket that I am using for the Schwinn Searcher. As I have the space to the struts, I turned the bolts around wt. the washers / lock washers and nuts on the outside. Took me an hour to put it together the first time and the sprocket was bent. Decided right then to turn the bolts around. Now it is much easier to torque the bolts to get the sprocket to run true. Think I need to look to getting some rubber to make new spoke mounts. The China ones are made from used tires it looks to me? Did you get rubber wt. cord reinforcement? I guess if your got rubber sheet wt. the proper durometer (hardness) they would be stable? Jim

Must look up AU time zone. Must be a day and around 12 hours later than AZ non DST? (Same as CA right now)

 

[Irish John]

Day 7 on The Fosscati FG4 Indian Pacific

Well today started off well and I rode into town dressed as a pirate for no reason other than I felt like dressing up. I got some bits and pieces for the bike build and came home to continue working on it. Last night I solved the Honda motor throttle problem the easiest way by using a carburettor from an HS/Hoot kit so I don't have to mess about with springs & struts. I cut a length of 3\16" engine key and began filing it to fit 3 different keyway widths.
Yes folks that is the state of this latest Grubee kit - one width for the Honda shaft, one for the clutch and one for the clutch bell flange. All were different widths and it took some time to make a key that fitted all three so they were a tight fit but could be slid on by hand. Don't want to have to use 3 jawed gear pullers next time I take it apart and although it galls me to have to do the precision work that should have been done in the factory in China it is essential to get it right.
I got the whole motor assembled and ready to go on the mounting tray. The tray was remade yesterday using proper steel bolts with nuts on the end and the studs were replaced with Aussie steel ones I cut & threaded myself. Mounting the motor on the tray took ages cos I use longer bolts than the kit ones and 2 of the bolts are hidden inside the mounting tray and took 3 hours to get on. At last I succeeded and all four bolts are loctited into the motor so the only way it will fall off is if the mounting studs snap or these 8.8 hardness bolts holding the engine to the tray sheer.
The tray doesn't like the Schwinn D7 cos the steel tubes are very thin and they wouldn't allow me to tighten them so they gripped the tube. I fixed this by using some of the 6mm thick rubber that I made the special rear sprocket clamp from - see pictures.
I'm a bit worried about this because although the rubber protects the tubes from scratching and maybe acts as a vibration softener, I have always been of the view that the motor mounts shouldn't be cushioned because that usually exaccurbates vibration. I've tried pulling the motor sideways to see if there is any movement at all but the rubber is compressed so hard the motor seems totally rigid to the frame. I reckon the compressed rubber will put extra force on the studs and I'll use double niuts on all studs but who's to say the studs won't pull out of Don Grube's silly aluminium threads on the tray slider. These trays would be much better if Don Grube was forced to do a product recall on all his trays ever sold and forced to eliminate all steel threads into aluminium blocks. His tray was a good idea poorly executed and the design was not resolved far enough.
I've got the exhaust to fit nicely tucked under the tray yet avoiding hitting the tray mounting studs which can be a problem.
All that remains is to cut a huge amount off the incredibly wide but lovely rear steel mudguard so the chain can pass freely. I reckon I'll just hacksaw it cos I don't think tin snips would cut this steel cleanly. That is a big job taking the mudguard off. Taking the rear wheel off is a nightmare because the Nexus 7 spd rear hub has very tricky plastic cassete joint caps that are nearly impossible to clip back on if the wheel is removed. Then the gears have to be reset which is hard to do on a Nexus 7.
The rear rack has a streamlined pointy end that no rear light ever made will ever fit so I'll make a bracket to take a rear light. Has anyone noticed that most rear lights these days only have a mounting bracket that goes around a seat post? The seat post is not a good place for a light because it can be obstucted by clothing & luggage etc. I need to find one that bolts onto a flat piece of steel and I'll make a flat steel bracket to fit the rear rack.
My front V-brakes make a creaking noise that is deafening and I'll have to look at what is causing that. It's hard to keep the revo twister gears with the throttle cos the throttle takes so much room and then there's the front brake lever before the revo twister. I change gear by crossing my left hand over to the right side cos my right hand can't reach from the throttle to the gear change without letting the throttle go slack.
Here are some pics - I'm on the home run after nearly 3 months of agonising chasing around to resolve things but the best news I've had for ages is that I've found a way to get my perfect 4-stroke host bikes without paying the rip-off prices that our sole dealerships demand. The fat cat importers would go for me to protect their monopoly if I revealed mt plan but I feel good to know that at last I can get the bikes I want at a price that is reasonable.
Incidentally the only Chinese thing I am still stuck with is the fuel tanks but I think I might have a way of getting good ones of those too - if not made in Australia then maybe I could use the tanks from the Honda Z50 kids motorbikes. I think they might fit on a bicycle with a little modification and 2 thick rubber straps. I don't expect the kits to improve. I think they'll get noticeably worse and I want to have somewhere to go so I'm not compelled to use any of that crud. There's a market for a good kit at a higher price and this Grubee kit I've used came from Sydney and has cost more to assemble to a decent standard than a Staton NuVinci. This experience is proof that a badly made kit isn't cheap even if they give it away!
I've finally got some 1 piece cranks from the USA and I'll take the riculous 3 piece off very soon. You can see how terribly ugly it looks and those foul pedals I had to buy for it. The shop will take the pedals back.
I'm having special decals screen printed for this bike - it's cheaper to have white than to use 2 colours so I've sent the designs off to the printers. White ones aren't cheap but colour is seriously expensive.
The Fosscati FG4 'Indian Pacific' is scheduled to take her inaugural run at dawn this Sunday on the Tyagarah Salt Flats in far northern NSW and I'm hoping she lives up to my expectations.
For anyone thinking of motorising a Schwinn D7 with a Grubee\Honda the advice is Don't do it unless you are mad or want to go mad like me!
You too could end up dressing as a pirate and walking around town at 9 o'clock in the morning!

 

[jimraysr]

GruBee gear / Honda motor / Tail Light

John, ny Schwinn had a rear reflector on the seat post and the 4 LED tail light I bought also was a seat post mount.

I made a post from PVC 3/4" ( approx. 25 mm OD) pipe and a cap. Painted it black and drilled the seat post rack and champhred (sp) it to use a flush self threading outdoor screw, 3 2/2" (88 cm) long. Used a grinder to cut off the point and back far enough to just stick through the cap. So now both set under the end of the rack.

I am going to change the seat post rack to a brake bolt mount. I added a spring mount seat post and cannot afford the extra space that the rack needs.

Shure don't like the wide spindle three piece crank set I see in your shots.. Mine now has the cranks that are equal to the OEM ones and have a offset in them, but gives around 9 1/2" (241 cm) clearance for the Honda engine.

My tray sets a little above the crank circle.

Did not see one 2' (51CM) lower brackket when I was shopping. Guess AU is still getting standard 2' (51cm) lower brackets. Mine and others here are 1 1/2" (37cn).

Need to get a double kick stand to hold the bike upright. The OEM one would let the bike lean over and fall.

Addind wide view mirrors to the handle bar. Had them on an old electric scooter we used when camping. One thing I don't have to buy.

I drilled through the both the aluminum block with the floor stand drill press and the steel tray for the engine mount. I can dismount the engine without having to move the tray. Hope I never have to do that.

Jim