NE-5 shake-down cruse findings...

D

del

Guest
Howdy, friends,

Yesterday I got the odometer on the Whizzer up to a whole 15 miles total... So I figured it was time to go over the bike to make sure things were OK. I found the usual loose bits and minor stuff. But then I noticed black speckles on the aft end of the front fender, front fork, and forward frame. The source of the oily/sooty deposits was quickly traced to the exhaust manifold / exhaust pipe junction. So, I pulled the spark plug. Sure enough, it was covered in black stuff.

Now, the questions... Is this just the results of the rings having yet to seat in the cylinder so I'm burning a bit of oil, and is normal? Or is it what I've suspected, that I'm still running too rich (even though I have the needle all the way down to full lean)? Or is it something that I've failed to think about?

Any thoughts?
--del
 

Quenton Guenther

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Hi Del,
First let me give you a little advice concerning the exhaust pipe/manifold junction. On my personal bikes I remove the small allen set screw in the manifold and replace it with a 6 MM allen bolt [1" long] & nut. I tighten the screw and the use the nut to lock it against the manifold. As a rule most, if not all, companies jet the carburetors on the rich side. The earlier NE motors had a #95 main jet and was later dropped to an #88. Most owners reduce the size even more to adjust for their area, and use either a #84 or #86. You are correct that the motor needs more time to "break-in" and will settle down somewhat after the first 100 miles, however if the spark plug is very black it wouldn't hurt to lower the main jet size early to make the bike easier to ride. Contact your local Whizzer dealer to order smaller jets if needed.

Have fun,
Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
A North Carolina Corporation
Quenton
 
D

del

Guest
Yep, Quenton, I've read about your use of a bolt and lock nut to hold down the exhaust pipe. And it's on my list of things to do.

Anyhow, today I spent some "quality time" with some wrenches and the bike. Among other things I took the carb apart to finally determine what main jet was originally installed. There was no number on the jet that I could see. And when I pulled the jet to look at the rest of it, still nothing... So this thing seems to be a jet of unknown diameter. The jet isn't a huge part. And I looked at it from all angles, under different lights, and still no number. Am I missing something? Is the number hidden somewhere?

The experience left me thinking that I need a few jets of known diameter, around the diameter that I might need for an altitude of around 400-1000 feet above sea level. That way I can get the mixture "dialed-in". Does that make sense?

And, Quenton, I _would_ go to a local Whizzer dealer in a flash, but most all the dealers around here seem to be running a retirement or part-time business; selling a few bikes a year and not having a stock of parts. So can I order some jets from you, or someone else on this forum? Or should I go direct to the folks in Texas?

The horrible truth here is that I seem to be having dang near as much fun working on the Whizzer as I do riding it....

But the best news is your advice that I put more miles on it....

--del
 

Quenton Guenther

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Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
2,157
Hi Del, Feel free to order parts from me if your local dealer doesn't stock parts, I don't mind supplying parts and keep a large inventory on the shelves. The original jets aren't marked, so don't strain your eyes looking for the number. So far it looks like the 95 weren't marked but some, if not all, of the 88 were. I just ordered more jets today, but still have a good supply in stock if needed. For every 2000 feet above sea level reduce the jet size, so at under a thousand feet above sea level I would try an 84 or possibly an 82. Most of your riding will be using from 1/4 to 3/4 throttle, and therefore the needle jet will do most of the work, but if the main jet is too large it will effect the operation of the entire carburetor.
I agree with you that it is a lot of fun "tinkering" as well as riding a Whizzer.

Have fun,
Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
A North Carolina Corporation
Quenton
 
D

del

Guest
Roger that, Quenton,

My wife read somewhere that as we grow older, we become more like ourselves. That seems to be true. When I was a kid on the farm , unable to afford a Whizzer. I took delight in re-building Briggs engines. tweaking the mechanical bits of my bicycle, and even crawling into the guts of a combine in August to help my father replace bearings that had worn out...

So, these days, I still enjoy making things work. And it's even more fun now that I'm a retired old f*** and can take the time to tinker.

If your phone number on the Whizzer web site dealer list is correct, and you plan to be around your shop on Monday, I'll give you a call and order some jets.

And, one more question.. If I get rid of the intake restrictor plate, will that effect which jet I should use? I suppose I could just try it and see...

--del
 

RdKryton

Active Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
948
Restrictor plate

Hi Del
I can answer the restrictor plate question. It is very important that the plate not be removed. It is a heat barrier for the carb. Without the restrictor plate the fuel could boil in the carb. This is not good. The opening can be opened up to match the diameter of the intake on the cylinder for better performance. Be warned that this will void your warranty. Hope this helps.

Jim
 
D

del

Guest
Roger that, Jim...

I'm fully aware of the value of the insulation provided by the restrictor plate. And know that messing with it will void the warranty.

I've thought of several ways around the insulation problem, but have yet to try any of them. However, my fundamental question remains....

If I make the intake less restricted how will that effect carb jetting? I'm of two minds on that question. Sometimes I think that the off-idle mixture is controlled by the main jet and the carb venturi, so getting rid of the restriction won't change the mixture. And sometimes I think that more air coming through the carb will mean that I'll need to make the mixture richer.

Is either thought right? Or should I just try it and see? Surely others have gone down this path before...

--del
 

Quenton Guenther

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Messages
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Hi Del, I will answer your questions in detail, but either later today or early tomorrow. I will go into detail about the carburetor used on the Whizzer, and will also answer your questions about jetting if the restrictor plate is modified. I need to know which model year you have [ I should remember, but I don't], and is it a 24" or 26", and manual or automatic clutch. Have you made any other changes to the motor, IE "mill the head", copper head gasket, mushroom or stock lifters, and which exhaust muffler insert you are using.
I am open 7 days a week, and usually up until at least 11 PM eastern time if you need help, just ask. However I am going to watch "Robin Hood" on BBC from 9 to 10PM tonight.

Have fun,
Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
A North Carolina Corporation
Quenton
252-475-0406 cell
 

RdKryton

Active Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
948
If you reduce the restriction to air flow, that should not change the mixture of the air and fuel. You still need the correct mixture weather you have high volume or not. Reducing the restriction will help performance especially on the top end. I have been testing many different jets in both a 22mm carb and a 26mm carb. I had problems with my engine stumbling at low rpm. It turned out to be the pilot jet. (slow speed jet) was way to small. I ordered a new stock jet from Whizzer and the problem was gone.
The off idle mixture is controlled by the needle. The way I understand these carbs is,
From idle to about 2000 rpms the fuel is controlled by the pilot jet.
From 2000 to about 75%-80% throttle the fuel is controlled by the needle.
From 80% to Wide open throttle the fuel is controlled by the main jet. However like Quenton said if the main jet is too big, it will mess with everything.
My 22mm carb uses a stock pilot jet and a #88 main jet. I am at 480 feet above sea level. My engine is not stock so your best bet might be a #84 or #82 main jet.
I'm sure Quenton will shine more light on this for you. He helped me with my jetting problems.
Hope the helps.

Jim

P.S. I have the needle set with the clip in the second notch from the top on my 22mm carb.
 
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D

del

Guest
Good, Quenton,

I'll give you a shout, most likely Monday afternoon if that's OK..

The bike is an '07 NE-5 and remains stock (for now). It's a 24" with an auto-magic clutch (your advice on speeding up the clutch break-in process has been a great help..) The exhaust insert is stock. And, as far as I can tell, meets your specs for what makes a "good one". It's flat on both ends.

Looking forward to your discussion of carbs and jets..

--del
 
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