(No electrolysis) Gas/Hydrogen hybrid MB

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Chain theory, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. Chain theory

    Chain theory Member

    How about a Gas/Hydrogen hybrid MB

    Run Your gas MB with supplemented Hydrogen from Aluminum and Lye. (no electrolysis)
    hydrogen generator H2O + Al -> AlO2 + H2 + heat

    How it works. (I have not personally tried this yet on an MB)

    Put Aluminum into a tank of Lye (sodium hydroxide and water). Caution Lye is just as dangerous as acid.
    The Sodium Hydroxide peels off the Aluminum Oxide surface from the Aluminum allowing water to come into contact with Aluminum metal. The Aluminum immediately oxidizes, ripping the water's Oxygen atoms away to make Aluminum Oxide.(collect and recycle please) That releases the Hydrogen which bubbles out to be burned in the engine.

    This reaction produces pure Hydrogen as apposed to electrolysis which produces brown gas (O & H = explosion) I would place the reaction chamber behind you! Run the Hydrogen tube through a series of vinegar (mild acid) bottle bubblers to help neutralize any caustic vapor from the reaction chamber this also prevents back flash. From there I would run the Hydrogen tube through a dryer (like the ones on compressors) and then the final destination is the intake. You now have a Gas/Hydrogen hybrid MB.
    The reaction: H2O + Al -> AlO2 + H2 + heat
    The reaction chamber must be able to handle heat and the caustic lye. You need to be able to add water,(the fuel) lye and Aluminum as needed. Just think of it as a kind of low psi Hydrogen boost bottle. I think that it might be possible to make this small enough and light enough to fit on a bike. This is an idea that I picked up from an alternative energy web site.

  2. heathyoung

    heathyoung Member

    Why Lye? - its nasty stuff - worse than acid.

    Why not use HCL + AL? Hydrogen + aluminium cloride... At least you don't have to mix it, and its cheaply available as muriatic acid for cleaning bricks.

    Again, bubble through water to remove acid vapours. Lye is nasty toxic shyte, I had an accident with it once, made a **** of a mess of my skin. I'd rather acid, looks prettier too (stays clear).
  3. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    From what I've read, etc. Hydrogen propogates flame far faster than gasoline, and the mixture will burn at the rate the Hydrogen burns. You might need to alter the timing on your Happy Time.
  4. alternativefuel

    alternativefuel New Member

    Last edited: Sep 30, 2008
  5. Chain theory

    Chain theory Member

    Good links

    Thanks alternativefuel

    Those links were both informative and funny. One possible problem with that system is that I don't think that our little bike engines produce enough Amps to run one. I hope I'm wrong. Then there is the size and weight issues too. I like the aspect of not having to use any chemicals.
  6. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Regarding electrolysis: An engine cannot generate enough electricity to produce enough hydrogen to run on hydrogen alone. (otherwise, you're talking about a perpetual motion device, which is physically impossible. Not just 'needing an invention or two to make it possible.') Even with the development of room-temperature superconductors, it is impossible.
  7. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    As far as lye or acid. Both would need to be replaced regularly (at least as regularly as gasoline,) as they have a limited amount of reaction capacity. The hazards associated with highly reactive liquids, coupled with their relatively high costs, would not make this a very 'attractive' approach.

    Suppose you have an accident, & wrap the bike around a tree, (or get hit by a car,) & the reaction tank ruptures. Acid or concentrated lye gets tossed around the site, including all over you... :(
  8. Bigwheel

    Bigwheel Member

    You can make Brown's gas with a half a teaspoon of baking soda to a gallon of water with the right generator and get about 80/30 if you have enough amperage. Even a 10% gain would be good and you would gain the advantage of a cleaner engine due to the water vapor introduced at high temperatures essentially steam cleaning your engine. With Ethanol it could be more like 50/50.

    Alternative fuels are the future. Plan on it.
  9. alternativefuel

    alternativefuel New Member

    Yes, gasoline is 13% fuel efficient and diesel is 17%, while 26% of your fuel gets burnt up in your catalytic converter. Now by adding hydrogen, you're making your fuel 95% fuel efficient by balancing your fuel levels.
  10. ZnsaneRyder

    ZnsaneRyder Member

    What if you could generate a LOT of HHO at home, and store it in a pressurized tank on your bike and then hose that HHO tank to the intake to supplement the gas. That way the HHO generation isn't done on the bike itself.
  11. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Do you remember the Challenger disaster? That was an oxy-hydrogen explosion caused by a jet of flame from the SRB O-ring failure. Oxy/hydrogen is a VERY explosive mixture, and difficult to compress as a mixture.
  12. Chain theory

    Chain theory Member

    This is true SimpleSimon.

    Lye, water and Aluminum are a pretty compressed forms of potential energy and there is no oxygen in the mix until the pure hydrogen it gets to the intake. Oxy/hydrogen (Brown gas) is what electrolysis produces. Either one if these gases by themselves is less volatile.
  13. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    It sounds pretty cool. But if I understood right it would mean that aluminum is consumed. Would this get expensive?
  14. Bigwheel

    Bigwheel Member

  15. Chain theory

    Chain theory Member

    Its altered or oxidized. kind of like when a nail turns into a little pile of rust. If you put Aluminum nails in this reaction chamber Aluminum oxide would collect on the bottom. You can recycle it the same as an Aluminum can. Water is the actual fuel well the H2 part is. The (O)xygen is bound to the Aluminum (AlO2). Water is a naturally condensed form of Hydrogen. The Lye and Aluminum just help you set it free into your MB. Electrolysis is cool but we don't have enough electricity to run our lights let alone do that. The only juice required in this system is lye and water. As far as the expense goes, how much beer do you drink? cans? Do you have any scrap aluminum laying around, maybe you could put that old blown happy time to some good use after all.
  16. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    You are correct. There is nowhere near enough power off of our magento to get a reaction.

    Pure hydrogen is extreamely explosive and I do not recomend anybody play with it. DO NOT MIX AL with acid or lye. You are asking for trouble! Pure Hydrogen has been known to spontaneously combust. (for no reason at all) (highly unstable)

    Browns gas from what I understand (DON"T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT) is much more stable. However I've heard of accidental explosions also. Inorder to get a reaction using electrolasis you have to have min. 4v and between 20-30amps. Amps are more important than voltage. A deep cycle or car battery would work great on a lugage rack. Again tho Acid!!!

    I've put alot of thought behind this. I'm not sure what effects of water vapor and oil in a 2 stroke would be. Remember the 4 stroke has a tighter ring to keep stuff out of the crank case (from combustion). Our 2 strokes rely on our fuel oil combustion byproducts!

    An explosion or backfire at the intake could make the girlies call you skeeterdink behind your back, the rest of your life!!! If they do already, YOU GOT NOTHING TO LOOSE!

    I'm glad to see interest on here, about this. Anybody use achahol yet in HT? Interested to know how it worked! How about run an alternator off of a bare bike rim on a stand?
  17. alternativefuel

    alternativefuel New Member

    Im glad your here.
    Heres a few links to get your electrodes fizzin.


    Neighborhood cars
  18. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    I've though about the auto alternator on the fixed bicycle.

    Never experimented, but I have the notion that a person might not be able to push hard enough against that alternator to generate any useful current.
  19. Bigwheel

    Bigwheel Member

  20. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member


    Might not have explained myself well enough. Put bike on stand (back wheel in air), wrap fan belt arround wheel to stationary mounted alternator. Use HT bike and wheel as means to turn alternator for power generation.

    The Cop's in your area (next emergency) would sure be mad if they had cold milk to "drunk" thier doughnuts in. Especially if your HT ran thier refridgerator!!!