NuVinci hubs and rh drive motors?

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by lessells, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. lessells

    lessells New Member

    Hi there all, greetings from Perth, Western Australia!! New as to this, first thread in fact. Hope it's in the right place! Been a fan of powered bikes about 2 yrs now. Had a few electrics and petrols, currently back on the gas train for now. Big fan of psb's, products and outlook. Has anyone had experience using nuvinci hubs? I can't seem to find any user testimonies anywhere. Do they perform well under heavy load? Average lifespan under power? Can you predetermine your gearing range? How do schimano or sram compare? Also, do you guys have 4 stroke motors over there with rhs drives? I like and use psb's shiftkits. Not cost i'm concerned with, it's efficiency. Current project aiming for rhs drive, hub gear, all belt drive, on a classic beach cruiser. Any info greatly appreciated. Les.

  2. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Hi lessells

    The questions you ask are the exact same questions that i would like to know, as i'm keen on the concept of the Nuvinci Hub, but there are hardly any people that seem to use them in a motorised application with virtually no write-ups of this style of transmission.

    On paper the Nuvinci hub seems brilliant, but how would it cope with 1 or 2 or 3 horsepower going through it for 10,000 kilometers, and how would it cope with the significant torque put through the system when combining it with a sick bike parts shift kit, with heavy haulage gearing, i.e. 70 or 80 kilos hanging of the back of the bike in a trailer combo.
  3. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    NV Experience

    Know nothing of the current NV 360 hub, except that I don't think NV will stand behind it for anything but the lightest power. Nothing like the 1-3HP mentioned. Google the NV website and you can probably drill down.

    I have an old NV 171 hub on a 20" rim, with a 27 tooth rim sprocket. That is chained to a 13 tooth sprocket on the end of a Staton (Oklahoma motorized bike part manufacturer) 18.75/1 gearbox. On the other end of that is a Honda GX35 4 stroke. If you do the arithmetic (and account for the 0.5/1 wheel/hub sprocket speed ratio in low gear) you'll find that I am somewhat under the 130 N*m torque limit NV puts on the hub. I have maybe 200 miles on it, no problems. But YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO UPSHIFT UNDER POWER WITH THE HANDLEBAR TWIST GRIP. I have the auto trans that comes with the Developers Kit, and it enables such shifting. But you need a solid 12 volts, and at at least 3 amps (probably more like 4-5 amps) into the controller to make it work. That means a proper mini charging system. I finally got it lined out, but it took many months, and some false starts.

    I think it's worth it, because the being able to autoshift thru a ~3.6/1 high/low ratio change, continuously with no CVT belt , is a real game changer. I can climb steep hills with 2 aboard my tandem recumbent, and speed up to over 20 m/h on the flats, all with a fully engaged centrifugal clutch, with a very tiny motor.

    Don't know if the Developers Kit is still for sale. NV moved on, after too many complaints about not being able to shift up (bogus) and folks putting many times the rated torque thru the 171 hub (not NV's fault).

  4. The_Aleman

    The_Aleman Active Member

    I've always wanted a Nuvinci myself, I've been researching them since they first came out. Generally, they don't hold up too well on these. There's definitely been more breakages than success stories.

    The newest model, the N360, is even worse than the N171 it replaced. There's several people who run the N171, as that's the model that came on the Cadillac Fleetwood bicycle. As long as you don't put much more than 2HP through it and shift nicely, it seems to work okay. In fact, NashMoto won the 49CC category at a race using a modified GXH50 and 4G-style tranny through a custom jackshaft to a Nuvinci.

    The N360 is prone to splitting it's case. If that happens, it's pretty much ruined, while the N171 can be put back together again.
  5. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    That's so disappointing to hear that that Nuvinci hub isn't up to the job when used in a motorised application.

    I desperately want a Nuvinci hub, but only a reliable Nuvinci hub with equivalent strength to a cassette and freehub mechanism.
  6. lessells

    lessells New Member

    Thanks for the response guys, all good info. After checking Staton's site I wondered about the whole warranty withdrawal thing- only in as far as it made me think there must have been plenty of problems for it to happen. Then again, they still sell them in their kits??Any knowledge of other hub types- Sturmey Archer, Shimano, Rohloff?? Anyone out there using them with some experience to share?
  7. The_Aleman

    The_Aleman Active Member

    I run a Sturmey Archer set on my shift-kitted bike. Front is an X-FDD (70MM drum with genny) and rear is X-RD3 (70MM drum with 3-speed). The brakes are a little too small for my taste, I've had to add a second set.

    The X-RD3 seems to be a good choice for a 3-speed hub. It's held up for nearly 2 years and 5000 miles to my Huasheng and 5:1 4G. I know of another member with the same hub hooked up to a shift-kitted 2-stroke bike and another member with an X-RD5 (70MM drum with 5-speed) on his shift-kitted 4-stroke. So far, none of us have problems, and I honestly think these Taiwan Sturmeys are better than the '60-'90s British Sturmeys.

    As for Shimano, I have no faith in their IGHs. I've had no luck with them in pedal-only config and I've seen at least 3 breakages on the forums when motorvated. In my humble opinion, they aren't up to the task.

    Rohloffs, all I can say is I wish I had exp with them. They are likely the best IGH one can buy, and their prices reflect that! They are built extremely strong and probably would handle motor power quite easily.
  8. lessells

    lessells New Member

    Hey, that was quick! Thanks heaps for the advice. To be honest, i've been wondering about the number of gears on some of the setups i read about. Even on my last bike, which had 6, i got sick of changing all the time, and constantly thought 3 or 4 of the right ratio would've been fine. I'm also not much worried for the need to change gears instantly or under full load. Current project is more about ease (laziness!) of operation and reliability.
  9. The_Aleman

    The_Aleman Active Member

    Yeah, too many gears can be a bad thing. On externally-shifted bikes, more gears means more awkward chain angles. Using lowest or highest gears, the chain will not be straight.
    On internally-shifted bikes, more gears usually means a more complicated hub. Smaller innards and more parts at risk to break (cough cough Shimano 7,8-speed)
    I'm somewhat familiar with a 3-speed Sturmey's innards, so I felt confident I could service it if it broke.

    The Nuvinci has 64 "gears". Doesn't have many parts to break, but it's known to get hot on long rides, which may cause it's fluid to seep out. This fluid, last I heard, is ~$100 a quart!
  10. lessells

    lessells New Member

    Hi Fabian. Heard a horrible rumour today that now we have national bike standards, the powers that be are planning to ban petrol motor assisted bikes completely, and only allow 200w electrics with the 'approx' 26kph limit to be classed as bicycles. The talk went further, and suggested the gassies are already outside the definition now in Qld. I have read the updated definition in W.A., and it pointedly disregards mentioning petrol engines, constantly referring to 200w, and in one section only, 1/3 hp. There is no 50cc even mentioned. Further, our public transport utility, Transperth (W.A. Govt) used to recognise 'power assisted bicycles' and let the electrics (not gassies obviously, boom!!) use the train system. They recently put out a new guideline, which doesn't recognise ANY 'power assisted' definition of a bicycle, so any bike with any kind of motor is banned, apart from 'folding electric bikes', which must be carried in a bag not exceeding a certain size. Coincedentaly, or not, small european fold ups have flooded the major shops over here in recent times.It's all a bit worrying. Have you heard anything about any of this in Vic?? Cheers from w.a., Les.
  11. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Hi Les,

    I am sure Victoria will quickly adopt any draconian measures dreamed up by the other states, for Victorian state politicians are usually the first to enact such measures. I am sure they will feel legislation envy, trying to adopt even more draconian laws regarding any form of liquid fueled hobby or micro-engine transport.

    From what i can see it will mean that we will need to start getting creative in cladding our bikes and silencing our bikes so they can't be seen in the bicycle frame and are whisper quiet.

    A friend of mine is a police officer in the highway patrol department. We went through current laws and after crunching the numbers, he could issue tickets for around $6,000 worth of traffic infringements if the person is on a canceled or suspended car licence. If licenced and of the holder of a motorcycle licence, he could still issue me with around $2,000 worth of traffic infringements - and that's with current laws.

    It could get a heck of a lot worse once a blanket ban is imposed, because traffic infringements for a liquid fueled motorised bicycle would apply penalties to your car licence, motorcycle licence, truck licence and boat licence or any other form of motorised licence you hold, crikey, even potentially your aviation licence come to think about it.

    I always used to think of Australia as the land of the fair and free!
  12. zwebx

    zwebx Member

    yeah well how are they going to prove it was over 200w when you "pedal all the time" and i was stopped the other day and they said to not allow highway patrol to see you because they are less "lenient" but the saw me and did nothing on my ride home...
  13. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    The police don't have to prove anything. They just give you the infringement notice (whether it's a lawful ticket or not) and it's up to "you" to prove in court that your engine is legal.

    This means you have to take your time, and your money spent on legal council to go to court and prove the situation different from the ticket.
    Lawyers are not interested in a quick resolution - they want to extract as much money out of you as they can possibly get.

    The police know there is a virtual certainty that the matter won't be taken to court. They just hit you with a ticket, even justifying their action on a vaguely related law that might apply to your motorized bicycle.
  14. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    If the police want to bust your a.r.s.e (even if the bike is totally legal), they just issue a traffic infringement notice and from that point on, "it's become your problem"