of Man, Science and Religion

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by machiasmort, Apr 14, 2009.

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  1. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    No better time to start this thread.

    Undisputed are a few facts. Gas plus compression plus spark = useable energy. Put the energy to the ground and we are mobile!

    Science has figured out that man is about 50,000 to 60,000 years old through the study of the Y or male chromosome. Various mutations of this chromosome trace our history back to one "Father" making us all Brothers!

    This chromosome is what links us all as humans. More importantly it traces us to humans and not monkey's. This mutation is named m-168 and is the common mutation shared by all men on the planet (not monkey's). This said mutation has come from an area we currently regard as ESE Africa.

    I wish this conversation to be shared upon fact rather than opinion. As always, opinions are appreciated but care should be both taken and respected not to offend your Brother's as science clearly affirms humans didn't crop up in multiple areas but only one!!! By way of comparison the Great Lakes are only 7,500 years old!

    Basically what I'm saying is that man could have saved $1 a year and not paid off our US deficit at 7% interest return on his money! All joking aside, I'm a firm believer in the story of Babel as mentioned in Genesis 10-11.

    In a previous thread, I was questioned by one of our Brother's, do you really believe Noah lived to be into the Hundreds of years in age? I do... I offered explanation of a meteor hitting Earth and causing the outer atmosphere to rupture bringing about the Great flood that many religions believe in.

    The last Ice Age occurred 10,000 years ago, when the Great Lakes were formed and Man survived. I'm interested in Historical fact in relation to the Bible. Opinions matter but personal attacks should not be what this thread is about. For this period in time (brief?) science has proven us to be
    "Brothers", "some however just feel a bond". Please respect eachother in your posting. I'm sorry if I offend anybody, If I do PM me.

  2. heathyoung

    heathyoung Member

    I'm probably going to stir up a hornets nest here but...

    Coming from a country where religion does not influence education (as in teaching creationism over darwinism - WTF?!) I don't really get the whole at odds thing... Both can be taught concurrently, people need to be able to make an informed decision/opinion.

    What was the mutation from? Science is at a loss to explain/find a 'missing link', but religions(plural, as in religions OTHER THAN christianity) all claim to be the one true faith - erm. OK. Douglas Adams summed this up very nicely in The Hitchikers Guide series - restarant at the end of the universe - people of multiple religions turned up, but only one was correct - its absurd.

    Religion is a great way of explaining things people dont understand - people fear what they dont understand. Fear can be used to control a populace, hence religion...

    Science is now explaining what people dont understand - so religion is annoyed.

    There IS evidence to support darwinism - there is no concrete evidence to support intelligent design - yet. So the jury is still out on science vs religion.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  3. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Not a debate I want to get into.

    Modern humans - homo saps - are in actuality approximately 73,000 years old as a species. Coincidentally, that matches with the eruption of the Sumatra super-volcano, and also matches with the mitochondrial DNA evidence that suggest the total population of modern humans dropped to between 100 and 1,000 individuals at that time.

    So, who knows? Mayhap we as homo sapiens owe our existence as a species to genetic drift in a near vanishingly small origin population in the aftermath of a worldwide disaster. The eruption in Sumatra truly was a world-wide disaster - it caused between 5-12 years of winter like conditions world wide. The east central african equatorial coastal plain was one of the most survivable environments in such an event for any large omnivore such as man.
  4. kerf

    kerf Guest

    King James vs On the Origin of Species, this ain't gonna end good but kerf can stir the pot with the best. I've never found them to be mutually exclusive. Most of the issues arise from very literal translations of the Bible. By the way, I'm a BAC and I don't have a problem reading them together.
  5. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    I'm stayin gout of this one......
    I vote a ban on the discussion of RELIGION to be added to POLITICS

    Hey kerf
    Which BAC would that be? :devilish:

    BAC Baccalauréat (French)
    BAC Bachelor
    BAC Blood Alcohol Concentration
    BAC Blood Alcohol Content
    BAC Bank of America Corporation (stock symbol)
    BAC Bacterial Artificial Chromosome
    BAC Business Availability Center (software)
    BAC Belmont Abbey College
    BAC Battersea Arts Centre (London, England)
    BAC Business Advisory Council (Asian)
    BAC Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers (union)
    BAC British Aircraft Corporation (now BAE systems)
    BAC Basic Access Control
    BAC British Accreditation Council
    BAC Brisbane Airport Corporation
    BAC Boston Architectural College (Boston, MA)
    BAC Budget Advisory Committee
    BAC Business Assistance Center
    BAC Budget At Completion
    BAC By Any Chance
    BAC Baile àtha Cliath (Irish: Dublin)
    BAC Baltimore Air Coil
    BAC Breath Alcohol Content
    BAC Boston Architectural Center
    BAC Born Again Christian
    BAC Bioethics Advisory Committee
    BAC Biological Activated Carbon
    BAC Bronchoalveolar Carcinoma
    BAC Bindon Aiming Concept
    BAC Biotechnology Advisory Committee
    BAC Brewers Association of Canada
    BAC Bawinanga Aboriginal Corporation (Maningrida, Australia; Aboriginal outstation resource organisation)
    BAC Basic Airborne Course (US Army)
    BAC Buffalo Athletic Club (Buffalo, NY)
    BAC Boston Crusaders (drum & bugle corps)
    BAC Business Associate Contract (HIPAA)
    BAC Baking Association of Canada
    BAC Boeing Airplane Company
    BAC Balanced Asynchronous Class
    BAC Bar Admission Course (Ontario)
    BAC Billing Account Code
    BAC Bricklayers and Allied Craftsmen (union)
    BAC Budgeted Cost at Completion
    BAC Brigade Ammunition Column
    BAC Bioremediation Action Committee (EPA)
    BAC Bureau d'Assurances du Canada
    BAC Bell Atlantic Corporation
    BAC Bypass Air Control (valve)
    BAC Budget Activity Code
    BAC Boating Advisory Council (Florida, USA)
    BAC Business Advisory Center
    BAC Branch Address Cache
    BAC Business Affairs Commission
    BAC Bay Arts Council (Bay City, Michigan)
    BAC Baltic Business Advisory Council
    BAC Billings Athletic Club
    BAC Business Area Controlling (UK)
    BAC Buffer Access Card
    BAC Breakaway Coupling
    BAC Biological Agents of Concern
    BAC Bentley Administration Center
    BAC Bobcat Athletic Club (aka BAC'ers, Estes Park, Colorado, USA)
    BAC Booster Assembly Contractor
    BAC British Association of Counseling
    BAC Below All Clouds
    BAC Billing Adjustment Code
    BAC Buyer Agency Commission
    BAC Bangalore Anime Club
    BAC Boric Acid Concentrator
    BAC Block-Acknowledge Counter (ITU-T)
    BAC Bournemouth Aviation Consultants Ltd
    BAC Binary Asymmetrical Channel
    BAC Baseband Assembly Control
    BAC Baseline Assembly Control
    BAC Business Acquisition Council (SAIC)
    BAC building alarm cabinet
    BAC Budgeted Activity Code
    BAC Bloomer Amusement Co., Inc.
    BAC Battle Area Course
    BAC Boomerang Association of Canada
    BAC Base Advisory Council
    BAC Bus Access Circuit
    BAC Broad Area Chaff
    BAC Business Application Control
    BAC Bollard Acoustical Consultants, Inc (Auburn, CA)
    BAC BiologicalAgents PC
    BAC Basavanagudi Aquatic Center (India)
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015
  6. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    just darn amazing

    don't see where it does any harm -- posted in The White Zone ???

    wow -- I still think that it's amazing
    some think that all of this just happened

    the Earth just ended up on this exact axis
    knowing that with one degree one way or the other
    and we would not be here
    just darn amazing

    the Sun just happens to be the exact right amount of miles away

    ride that thing sideways
  7. srdavo

    srdavo Active Member

    aint science great!! :devilish:
  8. stude13

    stude13 Active Member

    has the north pole always been the some spot on earth? has anyone seen religulous? if not why?
  9. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    The Poles shift every so often. The next shift is due in 2012 which makes everyone (not me) believe it is the end of the world.
  10. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    BAC I believe in Kerf's case would be the same as mine. Born Again Christian.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015
  11. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    There seem to be an awful lot of these BAC's around,might it also mean
    Boneheaded Asinine Cretins ?
  12. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Being a little harsh aren't you JJ? No place here for that.
  13. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    You have a point,maybe it could also stand for,'Beneficient Amiable Comforters',to be more charitable.
  14. jg767

    jg767 Member

    That's better!
  15. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I don't mind being the lighting rod in this thread, that way those that have nothing to bring to the topic can participate. Anything to add a little meaning to an otherwise meaningless life.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2009
  16. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    yes stude

    yes stude
    many, many claim to have seen it
    may be a good THING for us to keep an open mind ---- and heart

    ride the MB thing
  17. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I will admit that I have not seen it and that I will not see it. I learned all I need to know about Religulous when I saw who the author was. I find Bill Maher to be someone that I don't care to hear from.
  18. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    It's pretty easy to find science blunders galore. That's why I laugh out loud when the President on down say things like: "The science is settled, global warming is real.........."

    Science never settles anything, that's the nature of science!!!
  19. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Amen, if science has proved anything, it's the value of the greatest voice, that being skepticism. It's only the challenging of "fact" and the effort to prove that "fact" that allows science to be self correcting. In many ways, this "new science" closely resembles the religion of the middle ages.
  20. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Please cite me some 'science blunders' Pablo.Science advances through the validation of theory by observable fact.To be considered a scientific theory it must be possible to disprove it by concrete evidence.That's why 'creationism' for instance is not a scientific theory,it is based on a particular belief and can neither be verified nor disproven by any objective criteria.Theories are provisional and utilitarian in nature,they don't propound any absolute truth and considered true until proven otherwise, and then superceded by a better theory.(or kept for use when they still lead to acceptable results under known conditions).For instance Newtonian celestial mechanics,although strictly speaking not correct is quite adequate in getting around in our solar system.
    'Blunders' refers to 'stupid mistakes',that is actions taken that,based on common knowledge available,clearly should not have been undertaken.Mistakes can be made in investigations and often the path to new knowledge is by exploration through trial and error.Only in hindsight it is ultimately clear which was the right path.
    I am rather in the dark about whatever "new science" Kerf is referrring to,that in many ways was suppposed to "resemble the religion of the Middle Ages".That's simply absurd,religion in the Middle Ages stifled any free thought or inquiry,it was the complete antithesis of what science stands for.If you did not toe the line as far as church dogma was concerned you stood a good chance to be hauled off as a heretic to be burned at the stake,unless you recanted.There has allways been a Scientific Establishment of course,often fighting a rearguard action against novel theories and it takes time for new ideas to be accepted,but the truth and the facts will prevail in the end.That is as long as the government does not try to censor,scientific info which is exactly what the Bush administration did,to it's discredit ,as far as gov. agencies were concerned.Their Science czar (on of his cronies from the Energy Ind.) rewrote scientific reports about climate change by reputable scientists such as Dr Hansen from NASA and tried to muzzle other climate scientists,so as not to "alarm the public."
    I suppose "new science" means to you science dealing with the atmosphere and climate change, which has been around for 50 years or so.The physics of the individual
    "so called greenhouse gases" is well understood although their interactions with pollution components such as soot,SO2 and high flying aircraft emissions not nearly as well.CO2 warming and cooling effects due to pollution have been compensating to quite a degree,but with increasing pollution control the warming has had more efect in the last 10 years.Atmospheric physics is quite complex,but what stands out is that CO2 is a major threat because it's effects will last for THOUSANDS of years once it gets in the atmosphere,until it's (hopefully) is absorbed by the the sea and finally converted into safe calciumcarbonate by marine life.By our standards the earth's climate,takes a long time to respond,50 years or so,but very much longer to recover.What is especially disturbing is that the sea is getting rapidly more acidic,killing off the plankton that incorporate the carbon in their shells and release oxigen,thus reducing both CO2 adsorption and oxigen production,a double whammy.Most coral reefs are likely to disappear in the next 50 years,what the long term outlook is for marine life is anybody's guess,it all depends on the developments in the atmosphere.Prognosis: Not good
    In any case unless we reduce burning fossil fuels world wide,and get more energy without releasing so much CO2,the US coastline will start to look a lot different by 2050.The sensible thing is to get a lot more power from nuclear reactors esp.breeding reactors,wind&sun will never be more than 20%, are unreliable and need back-up anyway. Finally Pablo your rather inane canard about "science not settling anything",that's baloney,I could cite you any number of fundamental physical laws that have been settled (that is, not disproven).Such as the Conservation of Energy,the Conservation of Momentum,Maxwells Equations,Planck's Law,Wien's Law,the First and Second Law of Thermodynamics,Gibbs Law etc. to name a few.Anyway,so what!.Science is the ongoing quest for knowledge& understanding,that's why the Large Hadron Collider has been built at CERN to try to settle some intriguing questions,might the Higgs boson be found,can superstring theory be validated?.What gives?
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