Opinions on these ebike kits.

Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
65
Likes
0
#1
I'm a.returning member, haven't posted in a long time, with life and 30+ other websites. I'm at a point where I need affordable transportation other than the city bus and regular bike. I'm trying.to save up to fix the transmission in my car thus I don't really want a gas kit that needs...gas...and more fiddling than a chinese scooter, plus the initial purchase cost(yeah, I'm being super miserly, gotta fix my dream car) So I'm looking at these 48v 1K watt wheel motors on Wish. Would they be worth it to get? Sorry, the site won't let me use the link imbed feature, every time I tried to paste the link, the blasted thing closed on me.

https://www.wish.com/c/5a0434daa5419b1746b09f1c
 


bakaneko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,001
Likes
169
#2
The cheap ebike kits that do not have a display only the throttle led do not have an useful peddle assist sensor (PAS). On these kits, the PAS is set to max amps which is impractical, dangerous, and will drain your battery in minutes. You could of course only use the throttle but part of having an ebike is experiencing the PAS. Also, an ebike setup is more expensive than gas due to the battery needed. It all depends on the purpose of your ebike. If it is to workout and have a little assist than a small battery might be sufficient but if it is to replace a car or function as a gas motorized bike than you will need a lot of expensive batteries.
 

Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
65
Likes
0
#3
I don't need pedal assist and I don't think it's neccesary. I'm a beast on a bike. I don't even think those have PAS unless that's what that "hall effect' thing is, it mentions. Think of a moped; pedals or motor, but in this case a hub motor versus a stressed out 50cc 2t. I can always get better batteries. I just need the motor for going 20+ miles. Otherwise It'll just be pedaled.
 

bakaneko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,001
Likes
169
#4
They do have PAS; it is just set on MAX amps. I say this because I have the same kit (36V 500W) and using the throttle for an extensive period of time hurts your hands. I like to bike far distances 100 miles+ and its not comfortable. PAS avoids this by using your pedal cadence along with the power setting as a throttle. These motors are almost bullet proof but there is some cogging (resistance) from the magnets when you don't use any juice; you will feel it more with the 1000W motor. I like my ebike but it ain't the same as my 4stroke gas bike unless I double/triple my 600Wh battery. Just make sure you know the cost investment needed to achieve what you want. Definitely, you can do more pedaling and slowly build up until you get there.
 

Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
65
Likes
0
#5
I used to own a scooter, the throttle won't be an issue. I will head that info about the magnetic resistance. I'm glad to hear the motors are decent and if the controllers are crap, I could probably attain something better. I'm seeing the investment thing and quite frankly I've never been a fan of EVs, I prefer gasoline, diesel... steam. But I've always been intrigued by them and try to think of ways to improve them, I have designed some and have a few I want to build. I am decent with electrical work.

I wonder about the top speed, too. It seems the batteries and controller has a hand in that. Also the kits on wish seem to lean toward the use of rim brakes, not knowing top speed, I had the forsight to plan front and rear dual caliper setup and that is with the consideration of how much "engine braking," these may have. Which is also why I've considered suspensionsion for the bike I want to use. I'm thinking my Schwinn Link will be a good choice and I'll be using the Rock Shox Judy off my GF Kaitai. I'm hoping for about 35-40 mph. I have a set of tires that may work too, but I may look in to something like Thickbricks or Slickbricks.
 

bakaneko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,001
Likes
169
#6
Listen, I am not picking on ebikes. I am a clear adopter and supporter on many, many levels. But, to do what you want to do you have to be realistic about the cost requirements. Here are a few points.

- The cheapest eBike kit throttle is not like a moped/motorcycle/gas bike throttle it is awkwardly oval shaped with round protrusions that gets irritating and slightly discomforting after a long time. The kits with the PAS display is only like $30-50 more. It is worth getting that so you can avoid this throttle if you need

- Lithium batteries (don't even consider other chemistry) come in two grade normal and high discharge. The normal ones are cheap but have a nasty reverse log negative discharge (A) and capacity curve (Wh); meaning the more amps that you draw the lower the real world capacity. The high discharge batteries (rated to 20A) do not have this problem (only 5-10% decrease in capacity) but are of course pricey

- To hit 35-40 top speed, 1000W is not enough. I am a twig (super light rider) and when I had my 1000W I only hit 30. Guys on YouTube with the speed you are looking for are at 1500W minimum and they do not cruise at 35-40. That is a top speed. To do that at cruise, you will need much much more.

- The good thing about eBike especially a hub motor is that you can put it on almost any bike

- I like to minimize tire weight and get the lightest tires for eBikes since there is not that much power and tire weight to rotational force is to the second power I believe.
 

Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
3,112
Likes
473
#7
I have been looking at a 48v 1000W hub motor too. The cheap softpack 13Ah battery (624Wh?) I was looking at costs £220 (+£7 delivery) and (especially because you can't drain the battery to 0% or charge to 100% without shortening its life) would power the motor at its full output for.. Ooh less than 30 minutes! :D
So, yeah, that's why I haven't got an electric hub motor. :rolleyes:
 

Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
65
Likes
0
#8
Listen, I am not picking on ebikes. I am a clear adopter and supporter on many, many levels. But, to do what you want to do you have to be realistic about the cost requirements. Here are a few points.

- The cheapest eBike kit throttle is not like a moped/motorcycle/gas bike throttle it is awkwardly oval shaped with round protrusions that gets irritating and slightly discomforting after a long time. The kits with the PAS display is only like $30-50 more. It is worth getting that so you can avoid this throttle if you need

- Lithium batteries (don't even consider other chemistry) come in two grade normal and high discharge. The normal ones are cheap but have a nasty reverse log negative discharge (A) and capacity curve (Wh); meaning the more amps that you draw the lower the real world capacity. The high discharge batteries (rated to 20A) do not have this problem (only 5-10% decrease in capacity) but are of course pricey

- To hit 35-40 top speed, 1000W is not enough. I am a twig (super light rider) and when I had my 1000W I only hit 30. Guys on YouTube with the speed you are looking for are at 1500W minimum and they do not cruise at 35-40. That is a top speed. To do that at cruise, you will need much much more.

- The good thing about eBike especially a hub motor is that you can put it on almost any bike

- I like to minimize tire weight and get the lightest tires for eBikes since there is not that much power and tire weight to rotational force is to the second power I believe.
I do thank you on your insight. So like NiCad or LiCad batteries would be out of the question? I'm guessing hitting speeds like that would be more emotorcycle territory, than ebike, or something of the sort. Maybe either hub motors aren't what I'm looking for if they aren't for long distance and high speed. I was thinking more about high durability tires, than weight. If 30-40mph was possible, I didn't want them tearing up, or wearing out in two months.
 

bakaneko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,001
Likes
169
#9
Yeah, those battery chemistry are too low energy density. I believe these two are the latest and best lithium cells. Note, their discharge rate to capacity curve. I would seriously take a look at 1500W+ ebike videos on YouTube to get a sense what is needed. Yes, with the higher power better and tougher tires are needed. Off the top of my head, I think you need a 2000W+ and 60V+ 20aH battery at least. You can figure out the price from that.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...18650-30Q-spec-sheet.pdf?13304021761413850609
https://www.orbtronic.com/content/Datasheet-specs-Sanyo-Panasonic-NCR18650GA-3500mah.pdf

 


Top