Paper Work Carried - if stopped by police ?

Mountainman

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Well - here in Ca I have run into some different legal opinions in regards to riding under 2 hp MBs without a drivers license. Carry with me printouts from two e-mails from law enforcement agencies - stating that - NO DRIVERS LICENSE REQUIRED.. Many will say that this is not true - will it work if pulled over - don't know haven't pulled over yet. If you are in one of those (grey area states) what do you have planned if stopped ??? Happy Riding from - Mountainman
 

stude13

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hi mm; i think at this time that is a fairly good plan. with so many of us unsure of how to deal with the regs, including the cops. if it puts a question in the cops mind it may help. good luck to us all.
 

JinbaIttai

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Of course every cop is different.
If the discussion is anything less than completely friendly, I'd carry the printouts clipped to your license and hand the whole thing to the cop if asked for your license, politely,

This gives him the opportunity to see the law passively, and then possibly to empower him to feel that he is letting you go.

If you lecture him on the law, when he is used to lecturing others, you run the risk of damaging his pride, then he might end up screwing you with an illegitimate ticket which you may or may not be able to reverse.

The goal isn't to win the argument and fuel your pride with the power of legal knowledge & printed law, it's to ride away free of citations.

This is probably paranoia, but then so is carrying the laws around with you. I will be carrying the laws around, personally.
 
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TwoWalks

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Well - here in Ca I have run into some different legal opinions in regards to riding under 2 hp MBs without a drivers license. Carry with me printouts from two e-mails from law enforcement agencies - stating that - NO DRIVERS LICENSE REQUIRED.. Many will say that this is not true - will it work if pulled over - don't know haven't pulled over yet. Mountainman

Mountainman, I have talked with both the local men in blue as well as the Highway patrol in my area of Central California. Both have stated that any bicycle with a engine is considered a Moped and requires licensing both the vehicle and the rider. Both stated that an EBike does not require a drivers license or plates. Farther down into the Valley I brought this topic up with another Highway Patrol Officer and he said, no you don't need a license. Anyone confused yet?

If we license and obey moped laws, then we should never be asked for the drivers license. If we license and hand the officer the papers showing no drivers license required we are toast. What is a person to do or think?

When I read the Vehicle code, It sounds to me like any gas motorized bicycle is a moped and as such requires a moped plate. Beyond that personal choice!!!
 

Skyliner70cc

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Of course every cop is different.

The goal isn't to win the argument and fuel your pride with the power of legal knowledge & printed law, it's to ride away free of citations.

QUOTE]


That is very mature way to view this issue. Someone told me that temper is what gets most of us into trouble, pride is what keeps us there.
 

Mountainman

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Mountainman, I have talked with both the local men in blue as well as the Highway patrol in my area of Central California. Both have stated that any bicycle with a engine is considered a Moped and requires licensing both the vehicle and the rider. Both stated that an EBike does not require a drivers license or plates. Farther down into the Valley I brought this topic up with another Highway Patrol Officer and he said, no you don't need a license. Anyone confused yet?

If we license and obey moped laws, then we should never be asked for the drivers license. If we license and hand the officer the papers showing no drivers license required we are toast. What is a person to do or think?

When I read the Vehicle code, It sounds to me like any gas motorized bicycle is a moped and as such requires a moped plate. Beyond that personal choice!!!

Hi TwoWalks -- yes - it can be hard to fully understand
Sounds like you have the same kind of thing going on there -
two officers same dept -- two different answers

Calif. Motorcycle Handbook 2007 page 3 Motorized Bicycles
a motorized bicycle is

in part (a) of code 406
fully operative pedals
less than 2 hp
auto transmission

in part (b) of code 406
or elect motor - not more than 1,000 watts
speed not greater than 20 mph

note - no speed mentioned above in (a) for gas powered ????


Little grey area here noted --
it states that for riders in the (b) group - elect
no insurance, moped plate or drivers license required

makes no memtion of requirments for type (a) riders ????


If meeting all of the requirments for motorized bicycle
we can apply for a motorized bicycle Ca plate
one time cost 18 dollars
not the same thing as a mophead plate
hard to understand - because above it states - not needed ????

Ride That Thing - Mountainman
 

Bronzebird

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Power assisted Bicycle

This is the correct verbiage in Oregon DMV description of vehicle. Human powered design with power assist. The electric bicycle has clear verbiage and description of less the 1,ooo kilowatts needs no license or registration. Any gas power assist they automatically "say" can be modified to "Moped" regulations. Which is a slap in the face to citizens that engineer a bicycle to power assist as an alternative to Automotive transportation. I would like to participate in promoting this "Power Assisted Cycle" into public view. I suggest news and radio stations be contacted with a collective effort to "get the word out" on viable means of alternative vehicular transportation. Anyone with the ability to build and maintain a bicycle with the ingenuity to get 100 plus MPG should be allowed to ride the power assisted cycle without being an "outlaw"! My HT 80 is riding at a gas saving speed of 18-20 mph. The gearing ratio regulates the speed and not the power assisted H/P rating!
Information needs to be compiled and presented to local sources of news providers who are "pro" for the "little man". Who is thinking outside the box and putting his tools to work on being part of the solution to the human carbon foot print.
Anyone else want to be classified as power assisted bicycle by their DMV and not shifted over into another category that does not have pedal power?
 

seabillco

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Hi, BronzeBird
The temptation is to call a MB a moped because of the similarities. The problem is that bicycles have no certificate of origin, certificate of title or VIN because they have not been through the federal DOT certification for crashworthiness, pollution, etc.
This means a bicycle CANNOT be licensed in Oregon (and probably most states).
A moped, however, goes through that whole process and gets a title and a VIN so it can be licensed, insured, registered, taxed, etc.
So, as far as I can tell, there is simply no way to comply with the moped laws in Oregon if you're actually riding a MB.
I'd guess that most cops don't know all this and it's going to be VERY hard to convince one that you know more about the vehicle code than s/he does...
I carry the Oregon Pocket Bike Guide to the Oregon laws even though it doesn't actually apply (nothing does!)
Here's a link to the Oregon guide:

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/pocketbikeguide.pdf

FWIW, I'll show it to the cop and tell him I'm doing my best to comply but I'll be darned if I can figure out which category I fall into.
I wear a helmet, have a light, go slow and stay to the right all the time. I follow all the laws for bikes and I turn off the engine when I'm downtown and just pedal.
So far, in 2 months of riding around Southern Oregon, I've never been stopped.
Frankly, after fretting over this for a few weeks, I just gave up and started enjoying the ride. I ghost pedal when I see a cop and most people ignore me.
It bothers me to feel that we "NEED" permission from our government to be creative, inventive and come up with cool solutions to our problems (such as the price of gas). I'm not interested in letting 'the man' decide what I can do any more than he already does. If the Oregon legislature takes a shot at MB laws in the 2009 session, I'm afraid they might screw it up as, IMHO, they normally do with everything they touch.
They don't really care about ENCOURAGING people to come up with novel solutions to problems. They care about exercising their power to prove the need for their positions and their overall superiority. They also care A LOT about taxing everything in sight because there is never enough money for government.
And, lest you think I'm some wacko, right wing nut case, I've been a lawyer for 25 years and worked in the Oregon State Senate in the 1989 session with my brother who was a State Senator at that time. I have seen the process up close and personal and it's not pretty...

Good luck!
Steve G.
Grants Pass, Oregon

Good luck!
 
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seabillco

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Hi, loquin
If Oregon would follow AZ's lead, that would be nice! It seems like a reasonable approach that keeps it simple and fun.
Somehow, that doesn't sound like the normal approach to things here in Oregon...

Steve G.
Grants Pass, Oregon
 
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