"Petition" to Save USA's HT

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by augidog, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. augidog

    augidog New Member

    ok, folks...i made it easy for you, the rest is up to you.

    this will probably not be much help, but i don't see any way it can hurt.

    imo, best bet is to print, sign, and snail-mail it.

    if anyone has better contact info, please post it.

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2009

  2. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    Thanks for doing all of the work Augi! If we could get that address confirmed, I'm happy to send that letter and will consider them in future purchases!
  3. augidog

    augidog New Member

    technically, it wasn't my "first post" in here as promised...but it took me a bit of time, and a few beers, to get right.

    i guess if you sent it "in care of" a Grube distributor, Don would eventually see it.
  4. spad4me

    spad4me Member

    So Don Grubee gets his fondest wish. To be the sole LEGAL importer to the USA . If I want a Happy time engine kit, Its Grubee or the hiway.
  5. augidog

    augidog New Member

    look, i don't care one way or t'other, i said i'd try to make it easier to get a campaign started, so i did...your point, maybe valid maybe not i take no sides, is off-topic here.

    spad4me: you are free, and i wholeheartedly encourage you, to start a new topic in "the green door" with a form letter to your favorite HT maker/seller...or even an "i hate grube" thread in "general discussion", which i wouldn't encourage but it's still your right.

    again, i don't care, but i truly wish you best of luck in achieving whatever it is you want :)

    i just want all future MB engines to be in line with the new laws so we don't ALL wind up being squashed underfoot eventually....so i'm taking action instead of just b***hing. apathy does NOT rock my world.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  6. uncle_punk13

    uncle_punk13 Guest

  7. Whizzerd

    Whizzerd Member

    Augi, no disrespect intended here Sir, but why are you so adamant to see engines larger than 50 cc's eliminated? What about the offroad crowd? These things are about having fun with something that hasn't had simple, free enjoyment taxed or regulated away. Think ultralight aircraft. I've followed the thread "No more 2 cycles...'10" and understand the concerns. First rule of negotiation and compromise " Always ASK for more than your willing to compromise for ". Your letter STARTS by WANTING to give away. I'm the guy who suggested individuals contact their dealers about availability. And I did! Bought two more HT's to beat the impending price increases! I'm 52 and remember a day before this NewWorldOrder BS started kicking in. I'm like many on this forum , fed up with the status quo. Money rules COMPLETELY! And governments DO NOT have You or My best interests at heart. I say leave that sleeping dog lay. IF there is increased regs imposed it will be to get more of OUR money not because of 16 1/2 c.c.'s! Again, please don't take offense 'cause none's intended. BTW, loved your Site. Your ride up Mt St. Helen's looked awesome and I enjoyed the great pics. Take care.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  8. flashstar

    flashstar Member

    While agree that HT's should not be eliminated, I feel it naive to put a 50cc cap on engine size. How can those in the government determine that 50cc's is an adequate maximum size for an engine when other factors like efficiency are taken into account. For example, a Morini might put out 6 hp in 49 cc format whereas an HT of similar size will put out less than half that.

    I have a feeling too that the authorities do not care what size these engines are as long as they receive their "security deposit" of $500,000 from these small companies in China. The petition is a great idea, but size needs to be eliminated from its conditions.

    Soon, the government will request that even tighter regulations be applied to small engines. I could see them making a 30cc limit, etc. If we are going to make petitions to keep these engines around, all should be allowed. Who's to assume that people are using 70cc's on roads and not their own property or off-road?

    WE give power to the government, not the other way around. If the people want to ride 70cc's, they should be allowed to.
  9. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Whizzerd and Flashstar...... There is a thread in General Discussion called No more HTs in 2010. If you read that, it will answer your questions.

    Not to put words in Augi's mouth, but his contention is that 49ccs has become the accepted cut off between the motorcycle/moped class and the motored bicycle class. If you read the threads with the federal description of a motorized bicycle and many of the states description of what a motorized bicycle is, the majority say the same thing. Augi's goal is to prevent the total abolition of motored bicycles as a class of *non-vehicle* Many of us operate in a kind of a *gray area* which could easily be legislated out of existence. To prevent this he is urging compliance with existing standards.

    It isn't that Augi has a bone to pick with the Happy Times, or even with engines larger than 49cc's, just he is trying to keep the wrath of the powers that be from descending on us. Is that a good synopsis Augi???

    Flashstar, in the same thread, some of your concerns are addressed. Arizona, I believe already has a limit of I believe 35cc. Another *accepted standard* is either 20-30 mph in a specified distance on the flat. If legislation comes to pass, I suggested doing as cars do and specify a speed rather than engine size, and if caught you get a ticket. The kicker is that on one of my bikes I already run an oversize engine and haven't had any legal problems with it....so do we want to stir the pot. :grin5: That is also discussed in that thread.

    I suggest you set aside an hour or so and read that and other threads....lots of interesting ideas and good discussion in there.

  10. augidog

    augidog New Member

    ahhh...would that it were mere "negotiation"...but we have nothing to negotiate with...this is survival, imo.

    if there was a consistant set of laws in place, if MB's enjoyed their own class-niche...i'd have nothing to worry about, nothing to complain about, noone else would be able to negatively affect my right-to-ride thru their "violations." it would be case by case, just like any other motor-vehicle, and i'd happily keep my mouth shut and ride on :)

    ask yourself this, but please discuss it in a more appropriate topic, or someone start a new topic about it:
    if the commercial market had never offered anything over 50cc, would you miss it or "refuse" to build and ride an MB?

    methinks not.

    denny is right, i have no axe to grind, right now...but i surely will if
    we as a group shoot our own foot for a wee 16.5cc.

    thanks for the civil input & the kind comments about my adventures :cool:
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  11. WhizBangAndy

    WhizBangAndy Member

    I sent a quick note to Don today after reading the petition.

    Needless to say he is trying to address the emissions issue since it affects a majority of his operation especially since Canada has followed suit in the emissions requirements. He posted a quick FAQ on the emissions and links to the people directly handling it in the EPA.

    I went down this road in NJ before and I gotta say its a LOOONG one..lol
  12. WhizBangAndy

    WhizBangAndy Member

    I should have mentioned his post was on grubeeinc dot com..lol
  13. V 35

    V 35 Member

    I'm confused, at first I thought Motor Bikes are ' Green ' Vehicles , immune to Federal Bullying. Now it seems, certain states are trying to cash in on fees, by requiring Powered Bicycles to be registered . Massachusetts has a Limited Use Number Plate,
    I'm confused, do I need one ? If 2 strokes are outlawed, we're screwed . If a phase Out is planned, recently bought a couple Echo 2 Cycle Trimmers, [ for yard use ] just in case. Should I buy a few more Grubee's ? Or invest in a Four Stroke ?
  14. Richard H.

    Richard H. Member

    Not from there but maybe this will help:

    Moped/motorized bicycle:



  15. augidog

    augidog New Member

    this seems as good a place as any...i'll post the info but am more interested in hearing what others have to say than in commenting: i've had a look at a new "compliant" 66 and its labeling...it's labeled as an "off road MOTORCYCLE engine"...nothing about "motorized bicycle" at all...how are the 48's labeled?
  16. Stan4d

    Stan4d New Member

    My 09 48cc is labeld as off road use also. But says nothing about motorcycle. Here is a pic October 08 10 008.jpg
    Anyone with a newer motor?
  17. RedBaronX

    RedBaronX Member

    HTs and MBs are "green" only in terms of MPG and maybe in terms of emissions per person per mile, but I bet if the actual emissions per mile, per gallon, per cc, per HP were measured, they would not be rated as very green at all.

    If you were to translate the 2-stroke into an automobile, you get the East German Trabant, a vehicle that is not "green" by any stretch...

    I would be interested in the emissions ratings of the Morinis as they are a higher quality 2 stroke than the China girls, but I don't know if that even makes a difference since they are all 2-strokes.

    [EDIT to ADD] Electrics are green MBs, of course, since they themselves are zero emissions. They are as green (or not) as their electric source.
  18. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    I have to disagree with you on the electric bikes.
    Sure, while they are being ridden there are 0 emissions.
    but, take that electric bike and plug in the battery to be charged, and now you are creating a need for more electricity.
    It takes coal to make electricity, coal makes a lot of pollution.

    multiply this by however many electric bikes there are in the world and all these people plugging them in....they are just creating the demand for more electricity, which causes the power compaines to burn MORE coal.

    I feel this way about electric cars too.
    the more electric cars that are being plugged in, the more coal is being burned to make electricity to charge them.
    it really makes no sense to me at all because all things electric are passed off as being green, but in reality they aren't.

    I'm not a "green" person at all, but i just get tired of hearing about all of this "green" stuff because the reality is a lot different than what they are saying.
  19. Stan4d

    Stan4d New Member

    psycho.......I do not see your disagreement.
  20. Fulltimer

    Fulltimer Member

    I sent off the email. A comment on "green": look at how much energy was used to make that new green car or whatever. You would cause less pollution by getting an older car that doesn't get as much mileage.